2016 Honda Civic 1.5T TGDI..DILUTED!

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This seems to be typical Honda DI behavior: K24W/CVTs produce similar levels of dilution with seemingly no adverse wear results. And readers should note you have gone to a 5w/30 from the spec'd 0w-20.

Here's a Honda thought. LSPI is a fuzzily understood DI/TGDI phenomenon but is potentially catastrophic. Unlike traditional preignition, it can't be controlled with knock sensors that enrich the mixture or retard timing. Instead, engine makers identify where LSPI is possible and enrich the mixture at those points to prevent it. With a CVT keeping revs very low in most Hondas, it could be that simple highway cruising could put the OP's engine in the potential LSPI range, requiring a richer mixture and fuel dilution. My Honda dilutes oil with highway cruising, too.

Maybe Honda is just more cautious than other makers, has concluded fuel dilution is relatively harmless and has decided to live with it if it avoids serious LSPI problems.

OP: you can take these results to your dealer to dealer, but disclosing your use of an unapproved viscosity could create a problem. I've been down this very road with Honda and got nowhere. You could also try using 93-octane fuel as a few DI Mazda users have found this helps. Otherwise, I think your choice to accept this as normal or move to a different make.
 
according to the dipstick only, level grew 25%, that's why I dumped it relatively early.
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
running at 2000-2500 rpm's 70-85mph 80% also E091.


Iirc, LSPI is most common in the 1,500-2,500 rpm range..
 
Wow
crazy2.gif

Liking the fact that I have the 2.0 NA in my Civic even more now.
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
This seems to be typical Honda DI behavior: K24W/CVTs produce similar levels of dilution with seemingly no adverse wear results. And readers should note you have gone to a 5w/30 from the spec'd 0w-20.

Here's a Honda thought. LSPI is a fuzzily understood DI/TGDI phenomenon but is potentially catastrophic. Unlike traditional preignition, it can't be controlled with knock sensors that enrich the mixture or retard timing. Instead, engine makers identify where LSPI is possible and enrich the mixture at those points to prevent it. With a CVT keeping revs very low in most Hondas, it could be that simple highway cruising could put the OP's engine in the potential LSPI range, requiring a richer mixture and fuel dilution. My Honda dilutes oil with highway cruising, too.

Maybe Honda is just more cautious than other makers, has concluded fuel dilution is relatively harmless and has decided to live with it if it avoids serious LSPI problems.

OP: you can take these results to your dealer to dealer, but disclosing your use of an unapproved viscosity could create a problem. I've been down this very road with Honda and got nowhere. You could also try using 93-octane fuel as a few DI Mazda users have found this helps. Otherwise, I think your choice to accept this as normal or move to a different make.


now I'm confused as to which oil to run, upgrade to 5/40? and then how far to run it...Geez.
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
Originally Posted By: Danh
This seems to be typical Honda DI behavior: K24W/CVTs produce similar levels of dilution with seemingly no adverse wear results. And readers should note you have gone to a 5w/30 from the spec'd 0w-20.

Here's a Honda thought. LSPI is a fuzzily understood DI/TGDI phenomenon but is potentially catastrophic. Unlike traditional preignition, it can't be controlled with knock sensors that enrich the mixture or retard timing. Instead, engine makers identify where LSPI is possible and enrich the mixture at those points to prevent it. With a CVT keeping revs very low in most Hondas, it could be that simple highway cruising could put the OP's engine in the potential LSPI range, requiring a richer mixture and fuel dilution. My Honda dilutes oil with highway cruising, too.

Maybe Honda is just more cautious than other makers, has concluded fuel dilution is relatively harmless and has decided to live with it if it avoids serious LSPI problems.

OP: you can take these results to your dealer to dealer, but disclosing your use of an unapproved viscosity could create a problem. I've been down this very road with Honda and got nowhere. You could also try using 93-octane fuel as a few DI Mazda users have found this helps. Otherwise, I think your choice to accept this as normal or move to a different make.


now I'm confused as to which oil to run, upgrade to 5/40? and then how far to run it...Geez.


The 5w-30 was well within the spec'd 20 weight grade, so viscosity-wise you should be in OK shape. Maybe the solution is to stick with 5/0-30 but limit OCIs to somewhere between 4 and 5k.

I'm not happy with Honda on this front either, but I thought they would do better with the new-design 1.5 L engine. Honda used to be described as an engine maker than also made cars. The new Honda seems pretty far from that...
 
I'd doubt it, I can't wait to see a 10% OLM changed 0/20 at 12k..that can't last long. at 4350 this 5/30 OCI was at 70%.
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
now I'm confused as to which oil to run, upgrade to 5/40? and then how far to run it...Geez.

A 0/5W40 (preferably with Euro A3B4) would be my pick to double existing OCI .....
whilst awaiting effective measures (if any) dealing with fuel dilution in this Honda.
 
I suspected this actually before this tested OCI but the unit was so new I waited another 4350...and I did go to Delvac 1 5/40 currently at least til I get some direction back.

I'm sure the cold weather here has alot to do with this..just takes much longer to warm everything up then park an hour and repeat...Ford TGDI has trouble with the cold too if not mistaken they spec block heaters now.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: dblshock
16 Civic Coupe touring
640:1 TCW-3

You're just joking about that, right?


+1. When I ran TCW-3 in my 135i, I saw soot on the tailpipe. I don't run it there or my DI Hondas anymore for that reason. It could be more prone to condensing out and not flashing off, making things worse in an already diluting engine...
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
This seems to be typical Honda DI behavior: K24W/CVTs produce similar levels of dilution with seemingly no adverse wear results. And readers should note you have gone to a 5w/30 from the spec'd 0w-20.


My 2.0L hybrid shows some fuel, our 3.5 less... But you may be on to something. Honda will surely back-spec these engines for 0w-16 at some point. What objective evidence do we have that engine life is compromised or that damage is occurring at even 5% fuel? Iron is a bit high, in an aluminum engine. Lead doesn't indicate a bearing wear issue... So...???

Perhaps it is much ado about nothing. Get the right surface finish with minimal asperities, and design the bearings right, and you can run on a fueled down 0w-16.... It's all in the design. This is a new engine, notionally made to state of the art...
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: dblshock
16 Civic Coupe touring
640:1 TCW-3

You're just joking about that, right?


+1. When I ran TCW-3 in my 135i, I saw soot on the tailpipe. I don't run it there or my DI Hondas anymore for that reason. It could be more prone to condensing out and not flashing off, making things worse in an already diluting engine...


I wonder what Honda's thoughts are regarding the use of this fuel additive and the dilution problem.
 
Originally Posted By: kjbock
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: dblshock
16 Civic Coupe touring
640:1 TCW-3

You're just joking about that, right?


+1. When I ran TCW-3 in my 135i, I saw soot on the tailpipe. I don't run it there or my DI Hondas anymore for that reason. It could be more prone to condensing out and not flashing off, making things worse in an already diluting engine...


I wonder what Honda's thoughts are regarding the use of this fuel additive and the dilution problem.


Homda surely has no thoughts because they don't recommend additives, particularly not two-stroke adds...

My point was that it was clear that higher hydrocarbons remained due to the tcw-3, as the tailpipe does not get sooty when I don't run any...
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
such a tiny little amount 640:1


Doesn't matter. If I had fuel dilution issues like you, I would stop using any fuel additive and see what happened. Maybe nothing, maybe it will make a difference.
 
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I guess that's worth trying, I'll try and phone the dealer too, email the UOA to the service manager.
 
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