Toyota red long life & pink super long life same?

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My 1994 LS400 is too old, may be that why it doesn't matter what coolant is used. Other than factory filled coolant, I used both Preston and Peak All Makes with 3 years flushing interval with T-flush without any problem. When I released the radiator plug to drain the coolant, it was green and clean as new. I stick with 3 years interval because a gallon of concentrate Preston or Peak is less than $10 at WM. It's too cheap to have it in coolant system longer than 3 years.

Water pump and thermostat had been changed once many years ago along with timing belt, and the car has more than 250k miles now.
 
There is an official toyota service bulletin that states red and pink is compatible with each other.

:/http://www.toyotapart.com/ENGINE_COOLANT_COLOR_CHANGE_T-PG010-02.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: yuri2002
There is an official toyota service bulletin that states red and pink is compatible with each other.

:/http://www.toyotapart.com/ENGINE_COOLANT_COLOR_CHANGE_T-PG010-02.pdf


TSBs, as I've found, may or may not go into action.
That's based on an email from Scion. They told me that these are not for the public, and only to do what's in the manual.
I was pretty shocked.
 
The red and pink are not, or shouldn't be compatible. Its organic vs. inorganic, namely sebicate(sp?) that make the difference.

Both are excellent phosphate coolants but as I understand it, you should not use sebicate in non aluminum radiators because it will slowly erode the material. That is why Toyota recommends the pink only for newer vehicles with all aluminum radiators and heating cores. If you have an older Toyota you should use the red only.

Perhaps the bulletin means that both are compatible in newer vehicles where the sebicate wouldn't matter?
 
The real reason the pink SLL is not good for non-aluminum radiators isn't so much the fault of sebacate per se but because pink is not formulated with the inhibitors necessary to protect copper-brass and soldier radiators. The red LL had molybdate and a triazole to protect those metals. But the red like you're saying would work OK in later models.
 
Good thread.

Toyota Long Life (red fluid) and Super Long Life (pink fluid) are completely different. Super Long Life (pink) contains sebacic acid -- a standard extended-drain-interval organic-acid technology for Asian car makes. Long Life (red) contains benzoate instead -- a more traditional standard-drain-interval corrosion inhibitor found in traditional antifreeze. It also contains phosphates -- preferred by Asian car makers for their instant corrosion-inhibition benefits. It doesn't contain 2-EHA, avoided by Asian car makers because of potential harm on gaskets and seals.

Pink (Super Long Life) fluid is safe for newer Toyotas/Hondas but unsafe for older Toyotas/Hondas that have copper/brass/lead metals (such as OEM heater cores or certain aftermarket radiators) and it shouldn't be used in such older Toyotas/Hondas.
 
Further, no Asian oem AF use any formula containing 2eha (Dex based), that would include any Dexcool or Dexclone universal formula. Same goes for the Euro AF formulas, no 2eha.

If the information regarding not using SLL pink in some older Toyotas is correct and authoritive then Toyota needs to be more specific regarding specific years, because afaik, though not the same formula Toyota has said the newer pink is completely compatible with the old red.

That said, I've dumped the older and now expensive LL Red for Peak Global Lifetime concentrate. Very satisfied with that decision.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Further, no Asian oem AF use any formula containing 2eha (Dex based), that would include any Dexcool or Dexclone universal formula. Same goes for the Euro AF formulas, no 2eha.

If the information regarding not using SLL pink in some older Toyotas is correct and authoritive then Toyota needs to be more specific regarding specific years, because afaik, though not the same formula Toyota has said the newer pink is completely compatible with the old red.

That said, I've dumped the older and now expensive LL Red for Peak Global Lifetime concentrate. Very satisfied with that decision.

Is the propriety OAT sebacic acid? Chances are that it is and in that case it's bad for copper/brass/lead, despite the all makes/models claim.

Also, it has no phosphates, which is something Toyota recommends having. Phosphates, unlike OAT, provide instant protection rather than thousands of miles to be effective. Phosphates are only bad if the antifreeze is mixed with very hard tap water such as found in Europe.

It has benzoate though, which is good.
 
Personally no concerns about no P in PGL OAT. And PGL lists sodium benzoate as an/the active ingredient, it does not list sebacate. Again very satisfied with my choice and results, and a very popular bitog universal AF option because of no 2eha and long life service interval with a complete flush.

And as the link indicates, Chrysler has now also gone to an OAT AF for longer life, but unlike GM and Ford it does not contain 2eha.

Seems curious though Toyota and Honda both using sebacate as an inhibitor if there was any kind of issue with metals or solder. Know for fact that Honda Type 2 is back spec'd for all Hondas, and I'd use it in any Honda before a Dex based 2eha AF. And now Nissan and Hyundai/Kia have gone to an extended life AF too, that in greatest likelihood also uses sebacate, those too are back spec'd. In any case, the only inhibitor the Asian AF's specifically avoid is 2eha, thus that's the one I would want to avoid if possible. And based on Honda and Toyota oem extended life AF formulas, much more so than sebacate.

In addition to the sae link, the Motormag link is one with a wealth of information regarding AF choices and ingredients today.

Chrysler switches to OAT antifreeze for longer service interval.

http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1655
 
Well, again, be very wary of "universal" extended-life coolants. As far as I can infer, no universal extended-life coolant is safe for copper/brass/lead. In fact, a better statement is that no extended-life coolant is safe for copper/brass/lead.

From a previous Motor magazine article:

"We have in previous articles pointed out that today's coolant inhibitor packages contain a small amount of copper-brass protection, but may provide little protection if a radiator is made with high-lead solder. Results of industry standard tests of the new Toyota extended-life coolant now show a substantial weight loss (corrosion), both in a 50-50 mix and in a 33% coolant mixture (solder corrosion is much greater in this more diluted solution)."

http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=816

If you have an aluminum cooling system, including the heater core, go with a "universal" extended-life coolant. However, if you have an older car or some aftermarket part with copper/brass/lead, it's probably a very good idea to avoid "universal" extended-life coolants, whether it's Prestone, Peak, Zerex, Toyota Super Long Life Pink, or whatever. It may take 100,000 miles but you may see the damage at one point. It's not to mention that replacing a heater core is a nightmare -- nothing like replacing a radiator, which is a walk in the park.

Car makers (or even the aftermarket coolant makers) will back-spec extended-life coolants for old cars but that's only because they don't care if a pre-1995 car has heater-core failure. They will simply blame the age of the car.
 
If I owned a pre 1995 model I might be concerned about sebacate inhibitor. Your link dates to 04 and the more recent dated to 2010 didn't appear to note it.

That aside, no matter the heater core composition I would not go with any 2eha Dex based coolant, universal or othewise, in a non Dex spec'd oem vehicle no matter the year. PGL doesn't fit in that category.

But as long it's now known as pre 1995 that's being addressed, those reading to which that might now be applicable can keep that potential consideration in mind. Not one I currently have to be concerned with. Cheers
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Your link dates to 04 and the more recent dated to 2010 didn't appear to note it.

In fact, Toyota Super Long Life Pink was introduced in 2003 I believe; so, the 2004 article was timely to note its effect on copper/brass/lead.

Yes, as long as you're sure your car doesn't have copper/brass/lead, especially lead, in the cooling system, there shouldn't be much of a concern with sebacic acid. Sometimes aftermarket parts can contain these metals.

I agree about 2-EHA. I would probably avoid it even if it's OK'd by the car maker, knowing how potentially harmful it can be on seals and gaskets.

One other thing I found out about the OAT, including sebacic acid, is that these coolants do a lot of damage in the system if the coolant level is low. Therefore, it's important to keep the system full when using extended-life coolant. They also remove the rust more easily than traditional coolant and it's also important to flush the system every 5 years / 150,000 miles when using extended-life coolant, whichever comes first.

Last but not least, it always seems to be a bad idea to mix different types or brands of coolants, even if it says OK on the bottle, as the resulting chemical reactions and change in the balance of corrosion inhibitors could do a lot of harm.
 
Valvoline is also recommending the Zerex G-05 HOAT for 1995 and earlier Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Mazda/etc. Japanese makes, which is somewhat similar to the Toyota Long Life Red, and the Zerex Asian Formula for 1996 and newer Toyotas, which is almost identical to the Toyota Super Long Life Pink.

So, my inference about not using extended-life coolants (with sebacic acid and/or 2-EHA) with copper/brass/lead radiators and/or heater cores seems to be correct.

zerex2.jpg


However, note that G-05 is phosphate-free and has a small dose of silicates; therefore, it's not a true substitute for the Toyota Long Life Red, which has phosphates and no silicates.
 
Just as an FYI, for those looking for the older red "Long Life Coolant", it appears that Pentosin has a version of this for sale (I'm guessing they actually manufacture the Toyota stuff). My local O'Reilly's has it for cheaper than the Toyota coolant, and it's closer to me. Here's the data sheet: Pentosin Pentofrost A1.

Call me paranoid, but I'd just as soon stick with the coolant spec'd by the manufacturer. Note that this is stuff is only recommended to replace one coolant: Toyota 00272-1L L AC. This is in concentrate form, like the Toyota coolant, so it's not a horrible deal @ $26.00.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Just as an FYI, for those looking for the older red "Long Life Coolant", it appears that Pentosin has a version of this for sale (I'm guessing they actually manufacture the Toyota stuff). My local O'Reilly's has it for cheaper than the Toyota coolant, and it's closer to me. Here's the data sheet: Pentosin Pentofrost A1.

Call me paranoid, but I'd just as soon stick with the coolant spec'd by the manufacturer. Note that this is stuff is only recommended to replace one coolant: Toyota 00272-1L L AC. This is in concentrate form, like the Toyota coolant, so it's not a horrible deal @ $26.00.

I bough the Toyota Red at the local Toyota dealer for $23.82. Toyota Pink (50/50 mix) sells for $16.87.

I had seen the Pentosin Pentofrost A1 at the O'Reilly's Web site. It looks like an attempted clone of Toyota Red (not Pink), just like the Zerex Asian Formula is an attempted clone of Toyota Pink (not Red).

Pentosin is a German company. In North America, CRP Automotive is the distributor and possibly the manufacturer:

http://www.pentosin.net/pressreleases/PentoFrost A1 Antifreeze 1-11-11.pdf

Toyota Red (00272-1LLAC-01) and Pink (00272-SLLC2) are made by the Japanese company CCI in Illinois:

http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/Antifreeze-Coolant_002721LLAC.pdf
http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/Antifreeze-Coolant_00272SLLC2.pdf

CCI also makes the new Chrysler extended-life OAT purple coolant:

http://articles.sae.org/11284/

Note that the old Toyota Pink part no. was 00272-SLLAC and it was superseded by 00272-SLLC2. I wonder if they changed the formula. Original formula corroded the lead solder, found in the heater cores of 1995 and earlier Toyotas and some aftermarket radiators. So, perhaps it's a good idea to use P-HOAT Toyota Red for 1995 and older Toyotas (with copper/brass/lead heater cores) and Toyota Pink extended-life P-OAT for 1996 and newer Toyotas.
 
I have been working on Toyota's since the late 80's. Worked as a Technician and then Service Manager at a very large and reputable dealer. I am no longer employed by a dealer as I have my own independent shop. I have always sworn by Toyota Red. I always use distilled water to make my 50/50 solution. I have never had one customer that needed radiator, heater core, water pump repairs due to the coolant.

On my personal vehicles I of course use the Red. On my 2001 RX300 it came with Red. It currently has just a tad under 380K miles on it. I recently replaced the timing belt, pump, and the heater bypass hose underneath the intake. All the coolant passages that I was able to observe were as clean as day one. If you remove the radiator cap and look down into the radiator it still looks brand new. On my 2006 LS430 I did the timing belt, water pump, and thermostat at 100K. I gave it a very thorough flush including the heads. I reinstalled with Red. On my 2008 4Runner, which I recently obtained and did not know 100% the maintenance history. I flushed it last week as well. Again, Red is what I installed.

Toyota Red has never let me down and I feel 100% confident in using it. I will say this with 100% certainty, every time I have removed a radiator cap, inspected recovery tank, etc with the Pink installed it has a somewhat cloudy film at the top. Kinda hard to explain what I trying to describe.

I really wish Toyota would not make it so confusing to figure out which coolant to use. Same with the WS. Toyota is very head strong when it comes to this kind of stuff.

I'm not trying to argue or dis-prove anyone on here. Just giving you my real event history in using this stuff.

Now, I have a question.... I have a lot of the Honda coolant left over from my Honda motorcycle. Are you guys saying this is the same formula as Red or Pink?
 
Originally Posted By: toyo
...Are you guys saying this is the same formula as Red or Pink?

Similar to both in that they are all P-HOATs but closer to pink with respect Honda Type 2, in that both are extended life AF's rated to ~5 years/60k mi. interval. Whereas, the Red is rated to 2years/30k max interval according to my Tacoma owners manual and other internet sources.

And in my experience Red is becoming increasingly expensive as Toyota looks to be superseding it with the pink SLL premix.
 
I really can't understand why Toyota still sells red if pink is equivalent or better. My dealer shows no signs of phasing out red and I just got some this week for $23.82, same price as Gokhan quoted above. I use red because I always have, but if Pink > Red why keep it around?

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Similar to both in that they are all P-HOATs but closer to pink with respect Honda Type 2, in that both are extended life AF's rated to ~5 years/60 interval. Whereas the Red is rated to 2years/30k max interval accrding to my Tacoma owners manual and other internet sources.

And in my experience Red is becoming increasingly expensive as Toyota looks to be superseding it with the pink SLL premix.
 
^^^^I can't answer that question but I could give some speculation. The greater symbol > you used really only refers to the recommended service interval, which is at least twice as long for the pink. As previous older models spec'd Red, they may be keeping it around for awhile, but also raising the price as it becomes less used and spec'd. And the recommended interval needs to be considered when comparing prices between the pink and red. No idea though what the pink is going for now, and of course it is a premix so that must be considered along with it's longer service life.

But now with Pep Boys carrying full strength extended life Asian PHOAT for $20/gal with an up to 5 yr/150k rated interval, I'd give that hard look. That said, I'm very satisfied with Peak Global Lifetime extended life concentrate I'm currently using in my Tacoma.
 
I think I solved the mystery.
Both Red and Pink are the same (or similar enough to produce comparable performance).

I just changed the coolant on my 2004 Lexus LS430. The coolant was red (Lexus dealer last changed it when replacing the water pump and timing belt at the 100k service).
Red coolant on a 2004 model is expected, since Toyota didn't start using pink coolant until 2005.
BUT, the maintenance schedule (which is also what the dealer followed) on the 2004 says to change coolant after 100,000 miles / 10 years, and 60k / 5 years thereafter! This is the same schedule they are recommending for the 2005 model that uses the pink stuff!

In addition, the 2004 manual says to use Super Long Life coolant, but every maintenance schedule for model year 2004 lists the red coolant, which is also what the Lexus dealer is using for that model year.
At this point, Lexus would have surely caught their mistake and update their dealers to follow a different maintenance schedule appropriate for the red coolant, but they haven't.

Here is what I think happened:
Toyota has continuously improved their red coolant, but hasn't changed their maintenance recommendations. In 2005, they were confident that their red stuff has evolved enough to switch from 30k miles / 2 years to 100k miles / 10 years for new cars, and 60k / 5 years thereafter. That's a big jump. So they gave it a different color, released it as pre-mix (which ensures that the correct ratio and water type is used which does affect its life), and named it Super Long Life.

Similarly, on paper Honda's coolant hasn't changed since 1990 when they started using the blue premix on every Honda. Just like Toyota, they must have gradually improved it overtime, because I doubt that Honda had coolant in 1990 that is now advertised to last 10 years in new cars, whereas Toyota supposedly only figured out that formula in 2005.

Why are the ingredients on the bottle different?
They don't have to put all the ingredients on the bottle. For example, Peek Long Life Coolant doesn't list 2-EHA as an ingredient on the bottle, but it is on the MSDS.
Similarly, even if ingredients are listed on the bottle, that doesn't mean they are also on the MSDS. This is the case for both Red (http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/SDS_00272-1LLAC_Toyota_Genuine_Coolant.pdf) and Pink (http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/Toyota_super_long_life_coolant.pdf) coolant, which show ingredients on their bottles that are not listed on the MSDS.
Essentially, manufactures can pick and choose what they are listing as ingredients on the bottle, and can also decide what to list on the MSDS as long as the amounts are small enough to not be hazardous (which is true for inhibitors). This means that what is listed as an ingredient on the red bottle can still be in the pink bottle (and vice versa).


Either way, the red coolant lasted for 100k miles without damaging the water pump or radiator, which would be a long stretch considering that the red stuff supposedly only lasts for 30k / 2 years. When I drained the red stuff 6 years later, it again looked like new.
 
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