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Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius #4314163
01/27/17 04:20 PM
01/27/17 04:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 479
MN, CA
veryHeavy Offline OP
veryHeavy  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 479
MN, CA
The lithium-upgraded Prius Eco is rated 53 for highway MPG. I thought that was impressive until I saw the Hyundai Ioniq blue's score:

59 highway MPG
WOW.

Only the manual-shift Honda Insight ever scored higher (61). Hyundai does it by using an exhaust intercooler to improve EGR efficiency by 200%. They also have two separate water jackets for the block & the head, so the block can run hotter (220), the oil can run hotter, and reduce viscosity losses. Plus each cylinder has multiple holes to inject the fuel where it needs to be. WARRANTY: When your battery eventually needs replaced 10+ years from now, other carmakers will charge you $2500-to-3000 replacement cost. Hyundai warranties their batteries forever (if it's the original owner).

I never imagined an upstart Korean company would be able to out-engineer the Japanese working at Toyota.





Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: veryHeavy] #4314173
01/27/17 04:40 PM
01/27/17 04:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Indianapolis, IN
09_GXP Offline
09_GXP  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Indianapolis, IN
Time will tell what the real-world fuel economy figures are but this seems to be a good application of technology. Both the cooled EGR and variable-multi hole injectors are from the diesel world.

There are some trade-offs such as ditching the 12V lead-acid battery, it is now lithium-ion under the back seat. More $$$ to replace when needed. The cooling system will also be something to watch out for with having different loops. The thermal stresses between the head and block will also make for some interesting engineering challenges to keep that joint sealed but assuming it all works out it will be a great feat.


2017 Miata Global Cup Car #02 - Castol A3/B4 5w30 w/ OEM Fitler
2017 Miata RF - PP 0w20 w/ M1 Filter
2015 F-150 2.7L Ecoboost - PPPP 5w30 w/ MC
Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: veryHeavy] #4314175
01/27/17 04:43 PM
01/27/17 04:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
The Midwest
Competition is good.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: veryHeavy] #4314180
01/27/17 04:47 PM
01/27/17 04:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,570
NH
supton Online content
supton  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,570
NH
My first thought is, Hyundai has had issues with claimed mpg.

But competition is good. Hopefully ALL hybrids will raise their mpg. wink


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 163k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 190k, his
Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: veryHeavy] #4314191
01/27/17 05:06 PM
01/27/17 05:06 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,438
Alberta, Canada
Smokescreen Offline
Smokescreen  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,438
Alberta, Canada
With the hotter temps I wonder if what oil weight they recommend...if its a 20wt, I'll be surprised.

Last edited by Smokescreen; 01/27/17 05:10 PM.

13 Civic Si 2.4L- 69Kkms(43Kmi)-PP,Wix
09 Corolla 1.8L-380Kkms(237Kmi)-PP,Denso
05 LeSabre 3.8L-210Kkms(134Kmi)-PP,Wix
03 Sierra 2500 6.0L-204Kkms(127Kmi)-PP,Wix

All with mpg > EPA
Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: 09_GXP] #4314192
01/27/17 05:06 PM
01/27/17 05:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,425
Western S.C. since 1996
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,425
Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: 09_GXP
... Both the cooled EGR and variable-multi hole injectors are from the diesel world. ...
Toyota hybrids use cooled EGR, too. It's rumored to be prone to clogging after it gets a few miles (at least on 3rd-generation Prii).


2011 Toyota Prius now at 92K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: veryHeavy] #4314209
01/27/17 05:25 PM
01/27/17 05:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,399
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,399
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy

I never imagined an upstart Korean company would be able to out-engineer the Japanese working at Toyota.


Boy, me either. Then i realized i'm on my third Hyundai and it has been the most issue free brand I've owned. (This is my second Toyota)


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: veryHeavy] #4314212
01/27/17 05:29 PM
01/27/17 05:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,905
NE,Ohio
Rand Offline
Rand  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,905
NE,Ohio
Its possible but call me skeptic until they are in the real world for a few years.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: veryHeavy] #4314223
01/27/17 05:41 PM
01/27/17 05:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,801
New England
madRiver Offline
madRiver  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,801
New England
It's a bad comparison because Hyundai is a plug in hybrid so you have that hassle to achive the MPG.

If you compare the non plugin Hyundai hybrid to Toyota Prius the Hyundai still beats it slightly but numbers are closer.

Apples to Oranges my friend!

Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: veryHeavy] #4314228
01/27/17 05:43 PM
01/27/17 05:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 434
USA - Southern California
Skid Offline
Skid  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 434
USA - Southern California
For hybrids, the critical questions are (1) how long does the battery last, and (2) what is the replacement cost?

If one car's battery lasts 200k and costs $3k to replace, that's 1.5 cents per mile.
If another car's battery lasts 70k and costs $7k, that's 10 cents per mile.

I know someone who got screwed on a hybrid. I won't name the manufacturer. But, he bought used and did a little Ubering and found out (a) warranty was not transferable and (b) commercial use voids the warranty anyway. The 70k/$7k was his actual number.

Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: veryHeavy] #4314238
01/27/17 05:57 PM
01/27/17 05:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,256
California
Vuflanovsky Offline
Vuflanovsky  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,256
California
If Hyundai holds to battery replacement for the original owner for the life of the car...that sounds pretty enticing if this car turns out to be a true Prius fighter.

From what I've seen, this vehicle has been favorably reviewed with one of the big takeaways being it drives like a regular car in the handling and ride department...in comparison to a Prius or i3 for example. That might be a big plus for someone who's on the fence about owning a hybrid.

Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: madRiver] #4314240
01/27/17 06:00 PM
01/27/17 06:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 479
MN, CA
veryHeavy Offline OP
veryHeavy  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 479
MN, CA
Originally Posted By: madRiver
It's a bad comparison because Hyundai is a plug in hybrid
You are mistaken. Perhaps this link will clear things up for you: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?a...31&id=37309

The Prius, Ioniq are standard hybrids. The Prius Prime and Volt are plugins. Notice the difference in the EPA sticker? It's an entirely different top level & modified format for plugin cars

IONIQ's OIL: 5W-30 with ACEA A5/B5 spec

My Honda battery cost $2000 + labor == $2500 total. I could have bought a third-party battery for $1500 reburbished cells or $2000 new cells. (They also offered a battery with double capacity for $2500.)

Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: skyactiv] #4314270
01/27/17 06:49 PM
01/27/17 06:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Competition is good.


Real world performance over a few years will be the more important metric.

As skyactiv writes, "Competition is good." Owner experience will settle the question of which vehicle is the best. For me best would be a lot more then miles per gallon.

Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: veryHeavy] #4314273
01/27/17 06:53 PM
01/27/17 06:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,644
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,644
Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Hyundai warranties their batteries forever (if it's the original owner).


thumbsup

That's how all hybrids should be.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20

Re: Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius [Re: aquariuscsm] #4314585
01/28/17 08:00 AM
01/28/17 08:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,570
NH
supton Online content
supton  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,570
NH
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Hyundai warranties their batteries forever (if it's the original owner).


thumbsup

That's how all hybrids should be.


Why?

Thought of another way: For every system that has a "lifetime" fluid in it, should the OEM warranty that item for as long as the original owner has it? I wouldn't mind that!


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 163k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 190k, his
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