S&W .44 Mag - 629 6.5" barrel

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
What's the P&R era?

What's the difference between a Model 29 and a Model 29-2?



P&R refers to pinned and recessed. As in the barrels are pinned into place and the cylinders are recessed for the cartridge rims. These extra manufacturing steps were cut later on to make the guns easier and cheaper to produce. They were last made around 1982 when the 29-3 variations came into being.

 

[billt460]

Early S&W revolvers went through a bluing process that was second to none. Blued S&W revolvers manufactured today don't even come close to what they produced in the pre 80's guns that came in the wooden, lined presentation cases. Beautiful high polished bluing takes a lot of time to produce. And it requires many steps, along with a lot of prep work that cannot be short cut. Look at the price of a Weatherby Mark V Deluxe with it's mirror like bluing, and it's impeccably jeweled bolt that slides like it's on needle bearings, if you need proof. Today even the S&W Model 41 is matte finished. The older one's only had the top of the slide matte, as to not reflect light.

This is another reason arms manufacturers love the "tactical look". With everything matte finished or black oxide treated. It's cheap, fast, and highly profitable. The only prep work required is to have a low paid, unskilled worker run everything through a sand blaster. Then it's into the tank. As opposed to have each and every part polished to an almost mirror finish. Compare the dull lathe tool, "phonograph record finish" that's on the O.D. of most AR-15 barrels, to a beautiful, highly polished barrel on a bolt action rifle that takes hours to achieve. As always in manufacturing, time is money.

 

[Lubener]

Originally Posted By: splinter
Beautiful piece of hardware...I like its nickle finish.

Of all our handguns, revolvers are my favorites. Probably my grandfather's Colt SAAs planted that appreciation.





Stainless steel..

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
What's the P&R era?

What's the difference between a Model 29 and a Model 29-2?



Robenstein gave you a good answer on P&R.

I will just add to that that the counterboring("recessed") was only done on magnum cartridges and rimfires. Before 1982, all revolvers(not just magnums) had pin through the frame on top of the barrel. Rimfires are still counterbored.

As Smith and Wesson revises a model, they indicate it by appending sequential dash numbers to the model number. In 1958, when the N frame Magnums were introduced(27, 28, 29) they were released with no dash number. A minor change(I forget what) quickly turned them into the -1 variation, while the -2 variant came soon after. The -2 variants stuck around until 1982, when the -3 variants of these three models lost the "P&R." Among P&R models, the -2 variants are by far and away the most common.

Along the way, the model 19 actually ended up at the 19-4 before losing P&R.

By the way, the 13, 57, 58, 65, 66, 627, and 629 all made the transition from P&R in that time period but I don't recall exactly what the dash number cut-offs were on those.

 

[john_pifer]

Great information. Thanks.

I can't emphasize enough, how much I love a high-polish blued gun. I only own one - my 2014 Browning Hi Power Standard. I'd characterize the finish on that gun as very nice. I'm sure those Smith revolvers that were made "back in the day" were even nicer.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Great information. Thanks.

I can't emphasize enough, how much I love a high-polish blued gun. I only own one - my 2014 Browning Hi Power Standard. I'd characterize the finish on that gun as very nice. I'm sure those Smith revolvers that were made "back in the day" were even nicer.


The old S&W's and the Colts with the Royal Blue polish jobs (early Pythons for an example) were just downright beautiful guns. These days if you want something that pretty you have to send it off to a place like Fords for refinishing or get a real boutique revolver like a new Korth or Manurhin. If you ever get a chance to admire a blued Korth, do take the time. they are simply amazingly put together.

 

[Reg# 43897]

I just love this. I eat up anything to do w/ S & W's... Can attest to the advantages of a 5" revolver. Used to be issued w/ a 5" Model 10 once upon an age... Can still recite the serial # of that, now long-since-destroyed, K-frame. I can close my eyes, hold out my hands & take it's double-action trigger stroke up to the point of it's break... Probably always will be able to do that. Can only guess at home many thousands of rounds I put through it w/o a single issue - ever. Not one. There were a few ammunition-related hiccups naturally, but that's to be expected. My 4" 19 is fantastic & made before the P & R ended. Forgetting the dash-# for it (must go check!) but the bluing is really good. Some wear at the muzzle from holster-wear.

Funny story: I recall one day in the nineties actually borrowing an acquaintance's 8 3/4" Model 29 to to do a standard IPSC competition in Northern BC. You should have watched people's reactions when I started flailing down the steel w/ big, honkin' old 240gr plugs of cast lead. One guy nearly dropped his near-priceless STI .38 stupid! I had five speed-loaders & two double pouches. So that meant that I started out w/ the gun loaded, pouches full & the free speed-loader in my mouth. Needless to say, that was my 1st reload when the course of fire dictated it. There was one where I needed more so I just got to cover & tossed 'em in one by one. Something learned: doing single re-loads of .38/.357 is NOT THE SAME as re-loading .44 round by round. Those rounds are so big & the cylinder being so big as compared to the Model 10 that it wasn't that hard.

Of course, there was no 'return fire' so I am not exactly recommending the technique for an expected fire-fight. But you know, in a confined space, .44 blanks might actually 'do the trick'... Talk about intimidating. I'm a revolver man in a semi-automatic world, it would appear. Hah!

John.

 

[sleddriver]

All this talk of old S&W revolvers got me thinking, so I pulled out mine to have a look.

S&W .357Mag.
K94 2222
Mod 18-3
3-1/4" barrel

Beautiful, mirror deep blue bluing.
Factory Walnut grip

Hasn't been used much over its life. Definitely less than 100 rounds through it. I no longer have a ranch to hunt/fish/ride on. This was my old man's gun. He bought it in the early 60's after someone attempted to break in to our house. He always kept it loaded in the top drawer of the nightstand.

Funny how with 5 kids in the house, 4 boys, none of us ever bothered to "play" with it!

I'll post a photo later.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I've got a serious hankering for revolvers for some reason

Enjoy shooting them far more than a semi.

That is an absolute shame that yours don't get taken out, you should use this as an excuse to go exercise them

Welcome to the club. I may own more semis, but I prefer the revolver... Just like I prefer the bolt and lever action...

.44 is too loud and expensive for my tastes. .38/.357 is ideal, IMO, as are 10 shot .22s.
That said I do have the desire for either a .45 long colt or .45 acp revolver.

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
All this talk of old S&W revolvers got me thinking, so I pulled out mine to have a look.

S&W .357Mag.
K94 2222
Mod 18-3
3-1/4" barrel

Beautiful, mirror deep blue bluing.
Factory Walnut grip

Hasn't been used much over its life. Definitely less than 100 rounds through it. I no longer have a ranch to hunt/fish/ride on. This was my old man's gun. He bought it in the early 60's after someone attempted to break in to our house. He always kept it loaded in the top drawer of the nightstand.

Funny how with 5 kids in the house, 4 boys, none of us ever bothered to "play" with it!

I'll post a photo later.


Very nice, but double check that model number!

The 18 was a 22LR target revolver.

I'd strongly suspect that you have a 19-3. The 19 really is one of the all-time classic 357 Mags from S&W. Back in the pre model number days, it was called the "Combat Magnum." Basically, the idea was that it was a lot lighter and smaller than the huge N-frame 357 magnums S&W was making(what became the model 27 and 28) as well as the competing 3-5-7 from Colt(built on the medium-large I frame). It was a popular police gun and it was common for them to burn up a LOT of 38 special for practice and only carry 357s for duty.

As a word of warning, model 19s are notorious for erosion of the forcing cone and even cracking in some case. This is mostly associated with shooting 125gr 357 Magnums, as the shorter bullet results in a lot more flame cutting and the bullet hits the forcing cone at higher velocities than the common 158s. If you look, it has a flat spot at the bottom of the forcing cone-this is where trouble usually happens.

That's not to say the design is weak, though. In fact, Elmer Keith loved it because the cylinder is actually longer than on N-frame 357s. When you load a 170gr Keith type bullet in a 357 case for an N frame, you have to crimp over the front of the cylinder of the bullet. In a model 19, you can set the bullet at the crimp groove, which lets you cram in more powder. I just mention this as an historic curiosity and will advise to always follow published data from reputable sources.

One last thing-you might want to re-measure your barrel. On a revolver, the barrel is measured from the muzzle to the back of the forcing cone. Normal barrel lengths for the model 19 are 2 1/2" and 4"(along with 6"). I suspect that yours is 4 inches.

My 4" model 19-3 is my most carried gun.

 

[sleddriver]

Thanks for the info bunnspecial! Very interesting reading.

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
All this talk of old S&W revolvers got me thinking, so I pulled out mine to have a look.

S&W .357Mag.
K94 2222
Mod 18-3
3-1/4" barrel

Beautiful, mirror deep blue bluing.
Factory Walnut grip

Hasn't been used much over its life. Definitely less than 100 rounds through it. I no longer have a ranch to hunt/fish/ride on. This was my old man's gun. He bought it in the early 60's after someone attempted to break in to our house. He always kept it loaded in the top drawer of the nightstand.

Funny how with 5 kids in the house, 4 boys, none of us ever bothered to "play" with it!

I'll post a photo later.


Please do post some photos!

 

[Reg# 43897]

I checked - mine is a 19-3.

John.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: bunnspecial

Very nice, but double check that model number!

The 18 was a 22LR target revolver.

I'd strongly suspect that you have a 19-3. The 19 really is one of the all-time classic 357 Mags from S&W. Back in the pre model number days, it was called the "Combat Magnum." Basically, the idea was that it was a lot lighter and smaller than the huge N-frame 357 magnums S&W was making(what became the model 27 and 28) as well as the competing 3-5-7 from Colt(built on the medium-large I frame). It was a popular police gun and it was common for them to burn up a LOT of 38 special for practice and only carry 357s for duty.

As a word of warning, model 19s are notorious for erosion of the forcing cone and even cracking in some case. This is mostly associated with shooting 125gr 357 Magnums, as the shorter bullet results in a lot more flame cutting and the bullet hits the forcing cone at higher velocities than the common 158s. If you look, it has a flat spot at the bottom of the forcing cone-this is where trouble usually happens.

That's not to say the design is weak, though. In fact, Elmer Keith loved it because the cylinder is actually longer than on N-frame 357s. When you load a 170gr Keith type bullet in a 357 case for an N frame, you have to crimp over the front of the cylinder of the bullet. In a model 19, you can set the bullet at the crimp groove, which lets you cram in more powder. I just mention this as an historic curiosity and will advise to always follow published data from reputable sources.

One last thing-you might want to re-measure your barrel. On a revolver, the barrel is measured from the muzzle to the back of the forcing cone. Normal barrel lengths for the model 19 are 2 1/2" and 4"(along with 6"). I suspect that yours is 4 inches.

My 4" model 19-3 is my most carried gun.

You are indeed correct on all accounts! Thanks for the clarification. I had to go out in the sun with a magnifying glass to see that the tail of the 9 wasn't an 8! S&W sure curled it up high though.

You're explanation also helped resolve another issue re: size. I didn't realize this model was "downsized" compared to the larger guns as I'd never seen them side-by-side. But do recall seeing an N-frame on display and thinking it was HUGE and that what I owned clearly wasn't that large.

Barrel length is indeed 4". Thanks for setting me straight!

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial

Very nice, but double check that model number!

The 18 was a 22LR target revolver.

I'd strongly suspect that you have a 19-3. The 19 really is one of the all-time classic 357 Mags from S&W. Back in the pre model number days, it was called the "Combat Magnum." Basically, the idea was that it was a lot lighter and smaller than the huge N-frame 357 magnums S&W was making(what became the model 27 and 28) as well as the competing 3-5-7 from Colt(built on the medium-large I frame). It was a popular police gun and it was common for them to burn up a LOT of 38 special for practice and only carry 357s for duty.

As a word of warning, model 19s are notorious for erosion of the forcing cone and even cracking in some case. This is mostly associated with shooting 125gr 357 Magnums, as the shorter bullet results in a lot more flame cutting and the bullet hits the forcing cone at higher velocities than the common 158s. If you look, it has a flat spot at the bottom of the forcing cone-this is where trouble usually happens.

That's not to say the design is weak, though. In fact, Elmer Keith loved it because the cylinder is actually longer than on N-frame 357s. When you load a 170gr Keith type bullet in a 357 case for an N frame, you have to crimp over the front of the cylinder of the bullet. In a model 19, you can set the bullet at the crimp groove, which lets you cram in more powder. I just mention this as an historic curiosity and will advise to always follow published data from reputable sources.

One last thing-you might want to re-measure your barrel. On a revolver, the barrel is measured from the muzzle to the back of the forcing cone. Normal barrel lengths for the model 19 are 2 1/2" and 4"(along with 6"). I suspect that yours is 4 inches.

My 4" model 19-3 is my most carried gun.

You are indeed correct on all accounts! Thanks for the clarification. I had to go out in the sun with a magnifying glass to see that the tail of the 9 wasn't an 8! S&W sure curled it up high though.

You're explanation also helped resolve another issue re: size. I didn't realize this model was "downsized" compared to the larger guns as I'd never seen them side-by-side. But do recall seeing an N-frame on display and thinking it was HUGE and that what I owned clearly wasn't that large.

Barrel length is indeed 4". Thanks for setting me straight!


It's certainly a great gun both to shoot and just to own!

BTW, S&W introduced the "L" frame in the 1980s. It's roughly comparable to the Colt I frame(best known for the Python) and also the Ruger GP-100. The best known L frames are the 586 and 686 in 357 Magnum, and it's easy to see the Python inspiration in their designs. They also now make a 7-shot 357 Magnum on this frame. These guns were intended for a steady diet of 357s and to address some perceived weaknesses in the N-frame 357.

Like I said, though, I carry my 4" 19-3 all the time.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I've got a serious hankering for revolvers for some reason

Enjoy shooting them far more than a semi.

That is an absolute shame that yours don't get taken out, you should use this as an excuse to go exercise them

It is like a bolt action as compared to a semi. A revolver adds something to the shooting part.

 

[Brigadier]

I love my 'Maggie'

5" 629 Classic

 

[splinter]

Picked up a new S&W M686 164194A.

Well made, smooth action and shoots quite well. Very pleased.

 

[john_pifer]

Sweet! Is that a 4" barrel?

Got my 686+ in 2005 or so. Sweet trigger, and accurate! Such a versatile shooter.

 

[CourierDriver]

Those S and W's have a nice action and feel good in your hand. 357 by my bed...