2012 WRX Oil Choice with regard to LSPI

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jan 10, 2017
Messages
12
Location
MI - Michigan
Been researching a lot of oils lately and still having trouble deciding on a good robust oil for MY12 WRX which is otherwise stock. Driving habits tend to be a bit rougher than your average user I would say, but not flat out abuse. Looking into M1 0w40 and Castrol 0w30/40.

My concern with both of these oils is their calcium content with respect to LSPI events. I also would rather not have a relatively thin oil in regards to fuel dilution. I would like to keep economy, but with protection to my bearings for when I go flat out. I have no problem with a 5w40 oil, but am trying to stay away from diesel designed oils like rt6, etc due to high calcium levels for soot control in their original design. At work we religiously use M1 5w30/0w20 in most applications from small gas i4 turbos to v6 twin turbos. I haven't been able to find a VOA on a recent M1 5w30 formulation. From what I could find M1 0w40 has high calcium too. I currently have zero oil consumption using Subaru OEM (Idemistu 5w30) from day 1 and ~65k. Going to do an OA through blackstone on my next change too to gauge the overall health.

Any other suggestions welcome. Am trying to stay in the 5w30 category if I can. Other oils I'm looking at are Motul Xclean 5w30, but again can't find a VOA on that. Thanks,

Zak
 
You shouldn't have to worry about LSPI because your engine is not direct injection...LSPI seems to be a DIT problem.
Luckily, you should be able to use pretty much what you want!

My '14 FXT was recalled for LSPI and I have been sticking with M1 products. M1 0W40 is the only product in the line that I am aware of having a large calcium dose. Everything I have seen for M1 5W30, including the EP and ESP flavors, has shown low calcium...the ESP doesn't even use magnesium to replace some of the calcium and has a low starting TBN as a result.
 
Last edited:
Ah for some reason I could've sworn they went direct injection in 2011, but that makes more sense. And yes it's mainly a direct injection problem. It's something all the automakers are struggling with these days from what I understand. Quite interesting if you have access to the data; unfortunately I am not at liberty to share...The dexos1 rating is the only one I know that has LSPI conditions to be met for oil design btw, so I'd stick with that if you have known LSPI issues. Lucky if it didn't take your piston out!
smile.gif
Thanks for the info
 
Yes, we have seen quite a bit of data from reputable sources concerning LSPI. Chevron Ornite, SAE and Lubrizol to name a few. But it sounds like your application is outside this scope. Thankfully.
 
I don't think you could go wrong with any LL-01 approved oil for your EJ engine. It is probably the hardest oil spec to meet and is designed with small turbo engines in mind (BMW N20). Personal preference, I would stick with Castrol, Motul, or Pennzoil. Euro 5W-30s are a fair amount thicker than a dexos 5W-30.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dirty_projection
Been researching a lot of oils lately and still having trouble deciding on a good robust oil for MY12 WRX which is otherwise stock. Driving habits tend to be a bit rougher than your average user I would say, but not flat out abuse. Looking into M1 0w40 and Castrol 0w30/40.

My concern with both of these oils is their calcium content with respect to LSPI events. I also would rather not have a relatively thin oil in regards to fuel dilution. I would like to keep economy, but with protection to my bearings for when I go flat out. I have no problem with a 5w40 oil, but am trying to stay away from diesel designed oils like rt6, etc due to high calcium levels for soot control in their original design. At work we religiously use M1 5w30/0w20 in most applications from small gas i4 turbos to v6 twin turbos. I haven't been able to find a VOA on a recent M1 5w30 formulation. From what I could find M1 0w40 has high calcium too. I currently have zero oil consumption using Subaru OEM (Idemistu 5w30) from day 1 and ~65k. Going to do an OA through blackstone on my next change too to gauge the overall health.

Any other suggestions welcome. Am trying to stay in the 5w30 category if I can. Other oils I'm looking at are Motul Xclean 5w30, but again can't find a VOA on that. Thanks,

Zak

RT6 is the lowest Ca formulation I've ever seen.
 
Quote:
I just googled LSPI and now I'm wondering does this only occur in direct injected turbo engines or any direct injection engine?


It's mainly due to a lot of increased pressures in the cylinder and causes ignition that is uncontrolled and it happens before the spark, so you have ignition before the spark occurs. When the spark occurs it then ignites the mixture even more and causes pressures that are far beyond design scope for small displacement turbo applications. It kind of acts like a diesel cycle where the pressure ignites the mixture, but then you add spark to the factor and it basically acts like a small bomb. It is not uncommon for these instances to completely melt through the piston creating a hole in the general middle location of the piston. As for why, well that's still a theory at this point. There isn't a huge amount of concrete proof to say exactly why from what I know. Maybe someone with more direct hands on experience could elaborate more as I am fairly new to this research.
 
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
RT6 is the lowest Ca formulation I've ever seen.


See with recent RT6 changes I have been hesitant to use that, plus I am curious about the RT6 multi vehicle use in 5w30.
 
Originally Posted By: dirty_projection
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
RT6 is the lowest Ca formulation I've ever seen.


See with recent RT6 changes I have been hesitant to use that,.

Why? Because of higher ZDDP?
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't be concerned with LSPI in your EJ. You have a regular port injection engine. If you are have detonation issues, oil isn't going to help. I'd look at different plugs and potentially cooling the charge air more with a front-mount intercooler. Also, the computer will (well should) pull timing as soon as it senses knocking (from detonation). Stick with a quality A3/B4 5W-30, preferably LL-01 approved.
 
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: dirty_projection
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
RT6 is the lowest Ca formulation I've ever seen.


See with recent RT6 changes I have been hesitant to use that,.

Why? Because of higher ZDDP?


No, just haven't used RT6 before is all. Plus with the recent change I'd like to see the 5w30 RT6 results. Might try it out myself, don't know yet.
 
Originally Posted By: dirty_projection
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
RT6 is the lowest Ca formulation I've ever seen.


See with recent RT6 changes I have been hesitant to use that, plus I am curious about the RT6 multi vehicle use in 5w30.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4274896/2

Looks the same to me
21.gif


Never seen the 5w30 stuff, but then those have to abide by the SN P limits, so I don't even care to see it.
 
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
Never seen the 5w30 stuff, but then those have to abide by the SN P limits, so I don't even care to see it.

Note that its HTHS will be elevated, too, so there are other attractions beyond the P limits, which would have been limited on that product in any event due to ACEA E6.
 
Originally Posted By: dirty_projection
Quote:
I just googled LSPI and now I'm wondering does this only occur in direct injected turbo engines or any direct injection engine?


It's mainly due to a lot of increased pressures in the cylinder and causes ignition that is uncontrolled and it happens before the spark, so you have ignition before the spark occurs. When the spark occurs it then ignites the mixture even more and causes pressures that are far beyond design scope for small displacement turbo applications. It kind of acts like a diesel cycle where the pressure ignites the mixture, but then you add spark to the factor and it basically acts like a small bomb. It is not uncommon for these instances to completely melt through the piston creating a hole in the general middle location of the piston. As for why, well that's still a theory at this point. There isn't a huge amount of concrete proof to say exactly why from what I know. Maybe someone with more direct hands on experience could elaborate more as I am fairly new to this research.


The cause of LSPI is more than theory. I saw a high-speed combustion research film of an LSPI event not too long ago. It showed an oil droplet wafting across the screen, and then all of a sudden the whole screen lit up when the whole cylinder charge went off at once. The oil droplet was the ignition source for the whole event; the spark plug never had a chance to fire. LSPI is more of a concern on downsized turbocharged engines in heavy vehicles. Something like the 1.5L turbo in the Malibu, where the engine can be lugged at 1300 rpm under full boost. I don't think DI by itself is the cause of LSPI, it's more likely the result of higher compression ratios that are built into DI gasoline engines. DI done right, such as in a stratified charge combustion mode would not have explosive end gases, and would not be subject to such volcanic explosions.

As long as you aren't lugging your WRX at full boost under 2500 rpm, I don't think LSPI is much of a concern. I think that the high-performance nature of the car, sort of minimizes that concern all by itself. But in general, I think characteristics of oils that would make them less likely to contribute to LSPI is to have low-SAPS to minimize Ca, full synthetic to maintain a tight distribution of base stock molecular weights, and low volatility to minimize the presence of oil in the combustion chamber. I think M1 ESP 5w30 would be a good example of this kind of oil. Owing to the low SAPS, oil change intervals would have to be short, such as 5k miles, max.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top