Hi guys!this should be an easy one.my good friend keeps regular maintenance on his 91 honda.but he's a tightwad lol and normally buys walmaart oil and changes [email protected] recently bought valvoline synthetic blend,intended to buy full but wasnt paying attention.i suggested rotella but he only seen in gl.anyway how long should he go b4 oil chg?on the blend then switching to full synthetic?thank you in advance!
Synthetic blend oil change interval?
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He should be able to go 5000mi without any issues. What model Honda is it, Civic, accord?
I think in the owners manual they recommend 7500 miles on conventional oil using the 2001 oil specs. Using modern semi syns and syns 10000 should be easily done.
If hes been doing 3000 mile oil changes that engine should be like new.
If hes been doing 3000 mile oil changes that engine should be like new.
If his vehicle doesn't leak oil, no cross contamination w coolant, no fuel dilution, and minimal severe service driving, Valvoline syn blend will go > 5K miles.
This forum needs to have a very prominant link to both Oil 101 about why there is no such thing as a best oil AND why there is no such thing as the best OCI.
Every engine is diifferent in terms of condition, useage and driver style. All of those factors make a big difference in terms of how long an oil or filter is good for.
Without getting a few UOA's done, all I can say is that if you use a major brand full synthetic, the max recommended OCI in the owners handbook is probably OK, but if your block is rather worn or subject to severe service issues as defined by Mobil in their web site, there is no need to do a 3000 OCI, as short OCI's can increase wear rates. if you use very cheap non major brand oils or El- cheapo air or oil filters, then a 3000 mile OCI might well be a real good idea!
In my book if you have an engine with a turbo or known fussy VVT (Or cam phaser) and wish to keep it in the best possible condition, then use the best oil and filter you can afford. That often means using the real McCoil, namely a major brand GTL or group 4 Synthoil, not some partially cooked up and filtered dinosaur oil (A part synthetic in US terms, or a part HC synthetic technology oil in far more sensible German terms).
A part synthetic oil is not in reality going to make much difference unless you have a tuned up engine with a hot turbo, or love extending an OCI beyond the max recommended.
Every engine is diifferent in terms of condition, useage and driver style. All of those factors make a big difference in terms of how long an oil or filter is good for.
Without getting a few UOA's done, all I can say is that if you use a major brand full synthetic, the max recommended OCI in the owners handbook is probably OK, but if your block is rather worn or subject to severe service issues as defined by Mobil in their web site, there is no need to do a 3000 OCI, as short OCI's can increase wear rates. if you use very cheap non major brand oils or El- cheapo air or oil filters, then a 3000 mile OCI might well be a real good idea!
In my book if you have an engine with a turbo or known fussy VVT (Or cam phaser) and wish to keep it in the best possible condition, then use the best oil and filter you can afford. That often means using the real McCoil, namely a major brand GTL or group 4 Synthoil, not some partially cooked up and filtered dinosaur oil (A part synthetic in US terms, or a part HC synthetic technology oil in far more sensible German terms).
A part synthetic oil is not in reality going to make much difference unless you have a tuned up engine with a hot turbo, or love extending an OCI beyond the max recommended.
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Originally Posted By: BigD1
Keep buying the Walmart oil, and stock up when it gets down in the $7.xx to $9.xx range for a 5 quart jug. My brother bought a bunch of it, and runs it in all his cars/trucks. He has been using SuperTech for years.
+1 ST oil and filter and change it every 5k. It is an old vehicle and seems to have been doing fine on it.
Keep buying the Walmart oil, and stock up when it gets down in the $7.xx to $9.xx range for a 5 quart jug. My brother bought a bunch of it, and runs it in all his cars/trucks. He has been using SuperTech for years.
+1 ST oil and filter and change it every 5k. It is an old vehicle and seems to have been doing fine on it.
Its a 91 accord.and the supertech is not ever under 13 around us for a jug,and the synblend valvoline was 14.99 so i guess thats why he bought it thinking of 6000 miles maybe instead of 3.he's really a funny fella great friend.he has 2 tools! A 14mm wrench,oil filter wrench!oh i forgot he went to junk yard to buy a jack lol.but has ton of money in bank.lol
Originally Posted By: barkingspider
If his vehicle doesn't leak oil, no cross contamination w coolant, no fuel dilution, and minimal severe service driving, Valvoline syn blend will go > 5K miles.
Good advice here, but read between the lines to what he is saying.
Another item that effects OCI, in my humble opinion, is ambient temperature during the OCI.
Xmas shopping (idling while warming up or waiting in lines), cold starts and short runs, all work to break down the oil. Long easy vacation drives in the summer have a much different result.
I'd go over 5k in a heartbeat until the temps drop and the precip flurries or accumulates. Then I'd go 3k or three months whichever came first.
If his vehicle doesn't leak oil, no cross contamination w coolant, no fuel dilution, and minimal severe service driving, Valvoline syn blend will go > 5K miles.
Good advice here, but read between the lines to what he is saying.
Another item that effects OCI, in my humble opinion, is ambient temperature during the OCI.
Xmas shopping (idling while warming up or waiting in lines), cold starts and short runs, all work to break down the oil. Long easy vacation drives in the summer have a much different result.
I'd go over 5k in a heartbeat until the temps drop and the precip flurries or accumulates. Then I'd go 3k or three months whichever came first.
Doing "too frequent" 3K oil change intervals isn't going to cause noticeably more wear and cripple your car over its lifetime. My last 2 daily drivers both got over 200K miles (a 1988 Ford and 1997 Lincoln) using Quick Lube conventional oils and cheapo filters at 3K intervals (1-2 month) of SH, SJ, SL and SM oils. And those cars had 20K-25K of highway miles per year. Why is it going to be worse today using SN synthetic oils? Makes no sense to me.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Doing "too frequent" 3K oil change intervals isn't going to cause noticeably more wear and cripple your car over its lifetime. My last 2 daily drivers both got over 200K miles (a 1988 Ford and 1997 Lincoln) using Quick Lube conventional oils and cheapo filters at 3K intervals (1-2 month) of SH, SJ, SL and SM oils. And those cars had 20K-25K of highway miles per year. Why is it going to be worse today using SN synthetic oils? Makes no sense to me.
To tell you the truth, doing short OCI's is not going to kill an engine, but if you want to keep your engine in the best possible condition, which in turn will help fuel consumption, find out which OCI works best and if you need to use a real good major brand full synthetic.
Modern oils are designed for longish OCI's, so have a lot of detergents that have a nasty habit of cleaning off some of the very important anti wear layer deposited by the old oil far faster than a new layer can be baked on by the new oil.
So oddly enough if you do a series of different OCI's you might well find nearly as much wear occurs during a 3000 mile OCI as a 5000 mile one (Most of the wear is during the first 1000 miles). In UOA terms you just need to figure out which OCI results in the lowest Fe per mile, BUT if the TBN finishes up below one third of the VOA figure, then you also need to decide how to make sure the block does not start getting sludged up.
Most folks use cardboard media air and oil filters, which are a horror story when new. In fact they are so bad that I know one auto expert who refuses to use new air filters. He owns a Merc dealership and they are told to keep any moderately dirty air filters that are not too old or damaged, just in case he needs one.
Oddly enough if you are an ultra long block life fan, a 3000 mile OCI might well be good for a petrol engine, BUT you should then use a special low or even no detergent oil (Some aviations oils have no detergents) and a straight 30 grade (30w30), which alas means using a pre or run on heater in winter. Castrol Classic oils can supply pure 30 grades, although they charge siily money for a full synthetic. Not sure who does such oils in the US.
If you do use such an oil, using a flush just before the oil & filter change is an essential part of the program.
Most car engines should last at least 500,000 miles before needing a top end rebuild, but you do need to use good fuel, top of the range major brand oils and fully certified OEM standard oil filters, not just something on special for a real low price in Wallymart.
Doing "too frequent" 3K oil change intervals isn't going to cause noticeably more wear and cripple your car over its lifetime. My last 2 daily drivers both got over 200K miles (a 1988 Ford and 1997 Lincoln) using Quick Lube conventional oils and cheapo filters at 3K intervals (1-2 month) of SH, SJ, SL and SM oils. And those cars had 20K-25K of highway miles per year. Why is it going to be worse today using SN synthetic oils? Makes no sense to me.
To tell you the truth, doing short OCI's is not going to kill an engine, but if you want to keep your engine in the best possible condition, which in turn will help fuel consumption, find out which OCI works best and if you need to use a real good major brand full synthetic.
Modern oils are designed for longish OCI's, so have a lot of detergents that have a nasty habit of cleaning off some of the very important anti wear layer deposited by the old oil far faster than a new layer can be baked on by the new oil.
So oddly enough if you do a series of different OCI's you might well find nearly as much wear occurs during a 3000 mile OCI as a 5000 mile one (Most of the wear is during the first 1000 miles). In UOA terms you just need to figure out which OCI results in the lowest Fe per mile, BUT if the TBN finishes up below one third of the VOA figure, then you also need to decide how to make sure the block does not start getting sludged up.
Most folks use cardboard media air and oil filters, which are a horror story when new. In fact they are so bad that I know one auto expert who refuses to use new air filters. He owns a Merc dealership and they are told to keep any moderately dirty air filters that are not too old or damaged, just in case he needs one.
Oddly enough if you are an ultra long block life fan, a 3000 mile OCI might well be good for a petrol engine, BUT you should then use a special low or even no detergent oil (Some aviations oils have no detergents) and a straight 30 grade (30w30), which alas means using a pre or run on heater in winter. Castrol Classic oils can supply pure 30 grades, although they charge siily money for a full synthetic. Not sure who does such oils in the US.
If you do use such an oil, using a flush just before the oil & filter change is an essential part of the program.
Most car engines should last at least 500,000 miles before needing a top end rebuild, but you do need to use good fuel, top of the range major brand oils and fully certified OEM standard oil filters, not just something on special for a real low price in Wallymart.
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My idea of an engine in good condition is: no oil leaks, minimal oil burning/consumption, and no engine lights from the emissions system. Of course everything about an engine matters, but having the quality a step above is nice.
UKfan, is the real McCoil related to the real McCoy?
You said it, modern oils are designed for longish OCIs and I second that many if not most are long drain.
UKfan, is the real McCoil related to the real McCoy?
You said it, modern oils are designed for longish OCIs and I second that many if not most are long drain.
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Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
.... a lot of detergents that have a nasty habit of cleaning off some of the very important anti wear layer deposited by the old oil far faster than a new layer can be baked on by the new oil. So oddly enough if you do a series of different OCI's you might well find nearly as much wear occurs during a 3000 mile OCI as a 5000 mile one (Most of the wear is during the first 1000 miles).....
You'll have to explain to me how those detergents (Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, etc.) do that "over-cleaning." If you look at most of the UOA's presented on this site, you will notice that the detergent ppm levels from a VOA to a "used up" UOA don't vary by all that much. By the UOA you end up end with 90-100% of what the VOA originally had. So I don't see how that slight difference accounts for significant wear in the first 1,000 miles vs. the last 3,000-11,000 miles.
What if those initially high wear rates are also related to a dry oil filter on initial startup? Or contaminants in new oil that have to be slowly filtered out/burned up during those first 1,000 miles? Or maybe that fresh oil helps to "unstick" formerly bound contaminants that were already buried in the engine....and came out with the fresher oil, and were not just from fresh wear? Or maybe stripping the old protective wear layer is especially true if you're switching oil brands where the add packs are quite different (ie say Pennzoil vs. Valvoline?). A lot of people use different brand oils every OCI.
SAE paper from 2007
This paper demonstrating less wear on a 15K mile Las Vegas fleet suggest that the first benefit of lower wear occurs as early as 3,000 miles as the TBC films at 3K vs. 15K were similar. The next question is who is going to push their OCI out to 10K-15K miles to take advantage of this lower wear at the expensive of excessive thickening/depleted TBN, etc, especially if their owner's manual suggests 3K/5K oil changes? What if your climate is a lot colder than Las Vegas?
TBC films vs. fresh/aged oil
Best summary of the above by EdHackett: "This paper is often cited as proof that running your oil longer results in less wear. The paper does not say that at all, and that conclusion can not be drawn from the paper. The experimental design was not set up to test lower wear in an engine."
.... a lot of detergents that have a nasty habit of cleaning off some of the very important anti wear layer deposited by the old oil far faster than a new layer can be baked on by the new oil. So oddly enough if you do a series of different OCI's you might well find nearly as much wear occurs during a 3000 mile OCI as a 5000 mile one (Most of the wear is during the first 1000 miles).....
You'll have to explain to me how those detergents (Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, etc.) do that "over-cleaning." If you look at most of the UOA's presented on this site, you will notice that the detergent ppm levels from a VOA to a "used up" UOA don't vary by all that much. By the UOA you end up end with 90-100% of what the VOA originally had. So I don't see how that slight difference accounts for significant wear in the first 1,000 miles vs. the last 3,000-11,000 miles.
What if those initially high wear rates are also related to a dry oil filter on initial startup? Or contaminants in new oil that have to be slowly filtered out/burned up during those first 1,000 miles? Or maybe that fresh oil helps to "unstick" formerly bound contaminants that were already buried in the engine....and came out with the fresher oil, and were not just from fresh wear? Or maybe stripping the old protective wear layer is especially true if you're switching oil brands where the add packs are quite different (ie say Pennzoil vs. Valvoline?). A lot of people use different brand oils every OCI.
SAE paper from 2007
This paper demonstrating less wear on a 15K mile Las Vegas fleet suggest that the first benefit of lower wear occurs as early as 3,000 miles as the TBC films at 3K vs. 15K were similar. The next question is who is going to push their OCI out to 10K-15K miles to take advantage of this lower wear at the expensive of excessive thickening/depleted TBN, etc, especially if their owner's manual suggests 3K/5K oil changes? What if your climate is a lot colder than Las Vegas?
TBC films vs. fresh/aged oil
Best summary of the above by EdHackett: "This paper is often cited as proof that running your oil longer results in less wear. The paper does not say that at all, and that conclusion can not be drawn from the paper. The experimental design was not set up to test lower wear in an engine."
A 91 Honda will seem to last forever if you even remotely take care of it. The big thing that kills them dead 
is not changing that always forgotten timing belt every 60k miles. They give absolutely no warning and when they go you usually destroy all the valves because it's an interference type engine. There should be a sticker showing the mileage it was last changed somewhere on the plastic cover ..
is not changing that always forgotten timing belt every 60k miles. They give absolutely no warning and when they go you usually destroy all the valves because it's an interference type engine. There should be a sticker showing the mileage it was last changed somewhere on the plastic cover ..It really depends with usage of the vehicle, but I usually change mine every 5,000 miles.
By the way, is there any truth about semi synthetic based oil?
Thrre should be a couple of blends that are good oils ... but nobody knows for sure.
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Thrre should be a couple of blends that are good oils ... but nobody knows for sure.
That's what I'm also thought of.
Thrre should be a couple of blends that are good oils ... but nobody knows for sure.
That's what I'm also thought of.
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