Reloaders: Favorite .38, .38+p, .357 powder?

[SuperDave456]

Hello,

Looking into expanding my powder selection.
Been loading mild .38's and some .38+p along with a few .357's recently, and I stumbled across a small supply of .38 and .357 cases that I had forgotten about.

Right now I've use up all of my Accurate Arms #2 and #5.
The AA#2 was for mainly .38 plinker loads, but some +p came out of that can too.
The AA#5 was for +p loads, .357's and for a few .45acp.

Currently the only pistol powder that I'm using is Hodgdon HP-38.
Mainly plinker loads, but I bought a few .358 dia Hornady 110 Grain XTP's and they have published a load using HP-38 and this weigh of projectile.

I really like how the Hodgdon HP-38 is flowing through my powder measure and am thinking about getting another ball-style powder.
They just meter so darn SMOOTH.
With the Accurate Arms powders there was a audible "crunch" due to their sand like consistency.
Great Powders, and they metered just fine, but I'm a sucker for the asthetic of having my powder meter run so effortlessly.

Current front runner is the new CFE Pistol.
There are .38, .38+p and .357 loadings for it, unlike H110 which looks fun.
However, H110 has no recommended .38+p loadings that I find published online by Hodgdon, and .38 plinker loads aren't going to happen.
I figure it is best to stick with the recommendations of the manufacturer.

Anyone have any experience with CFE Pistol?
From the data I can find on the Hodgdon website it looks like it might be the most flexible powder for the rather large niche that I'm looking for.

Thoughts and recommendations are welcome.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I use CFE Pistol in my 9mm & .40 S&W, and will be trying it in my .45 ACP loads soon. It produces consistent, good velocities and does not produce a lot of flash, it also burns very cleanly. The other power I have but have not tried is Alliant Power Pistol, though I understand it produces a fairly large flash. I am looking for some Alliant BE-86 (clone of Power Pistol, but with flash suppressant added) to see how it works. For your .357 Magnum, you may also want to consider AA #7 which should give you more velocity than AA #2 or AA #5 and a higher density load.

Hope this helps!

 

[bunnspecial]

I've used a decent amount of CFE Pistol.

It's good in +P and lightish 357 loadings, but I find it gets a bit dirty on the low end. It's a "squashed cylinder" powder that looks a fair bit like HP-38(or Win 231-I buy the Winchester powder out of habit given the choice) which makes it meter well. I've been using it in 327 Magnum and 38 Super mostly.

IMO, CFE Pistol was made to compete with Power Pistol, which is another great powder for 38 spec. +P and low end 357 Mag.

The new BE-86 from Alliant also competes in this range. I have a can I haven't opened, although the flash suppressant does intrigue me.

Win 296/H110 is a great powder to have on your shelf, but it doesn't belong in anything but close to max loadings. When you want the "wow" factor, though, it's hard to beat-the sound, sight, and even smell of lighting off a full power 296 load are a sight to behold. If you start dropping the pressures, you will likely see accuracy fall off, and there's a threshold below which it can be dangerous. It has a reputation as a difficult to ignite powder, and using near max loads ensure consistent ignition. One of the beautiful things about it is that as a small grain spherical powder(or I can call it a ball powder in this case at least when I'm using the Winchester version-Ball powder is a Winchester trademark) it flows like dry sand. Granted, it also gets EVERYWHERE. If you're going to use it, I suggest either dedicating a measure to it or breaking down your measure and cleaning it completely after using 296.

Win 231/HP38 has been used in the 357 Mag range, although I prefer to keep it toward the lower pressure end.

At the end of the day, though, I'm an Alliant fan so I'm going to steer you toward their products.

Unique is hard to beat if you want one powder to cover the three cartridges. 4.7gr under a 158gr LSWC is a classic plinking load, while if you stretch it to 9gr or so under a 158 you can get a nice 357 Mag. It works well between these extremes. Of course, it's not without its problems. Small charges meter inconsistently, although I know(from taking the time to throw and measure standard deviations) that my Lee Auto Disk meters it repeatably in the ranges where it's used for these cartridges. The "flaming dirt" nickname is well earned, although it does clean up a fair bit at higher pressures. I think Unique claims to be the oldest smokeless powder on the market, and it truly is a "Smoke less" powder in that it smokes less than black powder

. It is very high in nitroglycerin content, which makes it burn hot and consequently lead bullet lube will smoke a LOT with it. It's my primary powder, although I think every reloader should have some as it really is one of the most versatile powders around-you will find rifle and shotgun loads for it also.

Of course, the "holy trinity" of Bullseye, Unique, and 2400 is hard to beat to cover the cartridges you mention. I've tried most of the "target" powders on the market, and I have yet to find anything I can consistently shoot as well as 2.7gr of Bullseye under a 147gr HBWC. It really is great in that charge range for any target-type 38 special load, though. I'm uncomfortable taking it to 357 pressures for case fill reasons, although it has been done and can be done safely if you are careful. Although it's a flake powder, the grain size is much smaller than Unique and consequently it tends to flow and meter well.

2400 works well for full blown 357 Magnums, and unlike 296 it can be safely down-loaded a decent amount. I have used it in 32-20 at 38 special pressures, although I don't recommend it for that sort of application. I got wild velocity swings(just using my ears to tell that some loads were subsonic and some were supersonic-most all the 32-20 I load should be supersonic by the book). It is very graceful, accurate, and consistent over typical 357 Magnum pressure ranges. At the top end, it will turn out velocities lower than max loads of 296 to the tune of 50-100 fps depending on the barrel length and bullet weight, but the performance is nothing to sneeze at. Also, it lacks the "wow" factor of 296, which may be good or bad. Although it's a flake powder, it's as free flowing as most spherical powders. There is a reason why Elmer Keith loved this powder.

Alliant has a newish spherical magnum powder sold under the name 300MP. Load data is scarce on it, although I bought some during the last shortage when I found it. Although Alliant has never said as much, I strongly suspect that it's either rebranded 296 or is at least a kissing cousin to it. There is only one facility in the US that makes spherical powders, so it at least originates from the same place. The unburned pwoder has the same consistency and smell as 296, it gives the same characteristic report, fireball, and smell when shot, and published load data is very similar.

For the other in-betweens, there are also the old Alliant stand-bys of Herco(a sort of forgotten powder) and Blue Dot. Herco is a bit slower than Unique and Blue Dot a bit slower than Herco. Herco can go down into the high 38 special range, while Blue Dot should be held to higher end 38 +Ps at a minimum and is happier at magnum pressures. I actually use both of these pretty extensively for 38 Super, although I find Herco a little bit better suited.

On the Hodgdon end of things, HS-6 occupies much the same position as Unique for Alliant. It will cover the full range, although my real world experience is limited. It is a spherical powder, so does meter well.

Another that I have on my shelf but haven't tried is Vihtavouri N320. Viht powders are VERY clean and extremely accurate. They are stick powders, though, so have the metering issues that come with those.

 

[SuperDave456]

Thank you for all the suggestions. I will have to research HS-6 and Alliant Powders.

While we are on the topic.

Primers, just used the last 100 of my Winchester "Small Pistol Primers for Regular and Magnum loads".

I have another box of standard pressure primers.

Any recommendations for Magnum primers for the .357 loads?

Thank you,

 

[Doublehaul]

Unique for me! But man is it dirty

 

[billt460]

I like 231 in my .357's. That said it gives very bright muzzle flashes in my short barreled, (2-1/2"), S&W 686.

 

[hatt]

I have used HS-6 for .38 and .357 loads. No complaints.

 

[FlyNavyP3]

I have a lot of Alliant and Hodgdon powder that I have loaded for 38/357. Unlike the poster above I prefer the Hodgdon powder. I find myself using the HP-38/WW231 for just about all of my middle of the road loading in both 38/357 you absolutely cannot beat the way it meters through just about any measure. For my low recoil loads for target or training I prefer Hodgdon Clays over Bullseye although bullseye meters better the Clays is very clean and the recoil is significantly softer. For my all out barn burner loads I'm a H-110/WW296 guy, sure the 2400 will get close in velocity but if I'm loading to that level I prefer the H-110, it meters exceptional and in my experience is very accurate, as others have mentioned it SHOULD NOT be used outside of the low end of the charge recommended by a loading book as it does weird thing gso if pressure gets low and it should also be used with a magnum primer. In the realm of Unique I do own and load it for my upper mid range stuff and it's reputation as flaming dirt is well earned I've had good luck with it in some 38/38+p and upper mid range 357 loads replicating the FBI load under a 158 grain SWC or SWC/HP it works very well from a short barrel, however recently I have been working up similar loads with Hodgdon Universal Clays (different than the Clays mentioned above) velocity is on par with the Unique and it is Much Much cleaner and meters much better once I get the loads worked up I probably wont go back to the flaming dirt.

All that being said if I had to load only one powder for 38/38+p it would be HP-38/WW231. It really works that well if you dont need to venture into the magnum velocities of the 357 that only a slower power can give you.

 

[LotI]

I second Bullseye in 38 target loads. The residue it leaves behind easily wipes off. I think it burns slower than the burn charts say at higher pressures.

I purchased some BE-86 but haven't developed any loads for it yet.

 

[2cool]

I use mostly Hodgdon products. For plinking loads, I like 700X, burns super fast and virtually no flash. I load a Berry Plated 158gr. over 4.0 grains (all loads are "book" loads, not in the crazy custom load development business). HS-6 gave good medium duty 357 loads, but has been supplanted by CFE; which has a flash suppressant. For all of the "flash-boom-bang", H-110. A poster on another board observed that one "could light rain on fire" with a max load. I can say personally that most of the shooters at the indoor range stop to wonder what happened when I light the first round off. More than a few of the autoloader crowd stop by to ask what I shot.
The only real reason I don't use other products is that my LGS seems not to carry them too often. I had used Power Pistol in 40 S&W, and was quite pleased; couldn't find it reliably after that. 700X is also real good in a short barrel.

 

[Fatboymoe]

38 special for the Hornady 148gr HBWC, I use Starline brass, and Federal 100 primers. 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I have used this load for my Model 52-2 Smith & Wesson for 30+ years.

38 Special load for a hard cast coated 158gr LSWC, I use mixed brass, Federal 100 primers and 3.3 grains of WW 231. It's my PPC and plinker load.

357 Magnum for 125gr Sierra JHC. Starline brass. CCI 550. 15.5 grains 2400. I use this load in 4" revolvers only ! Not a lot of muzzle flash.

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted By: Fatboymoe
38 special for the Hornady 148gr HBWC, I use Starline brass, and Federal 100 primers. 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I have used this load for my Model 52-2 Smith & Wesson for 30+ years


Not sure if I mentioned in all my rambling, but I do this exact combo also. I don't recall Federal primer numbers, but I do use the(red/gold box) gold medal match SPs. I also use double cannelure wadcutter brass, although this is getting hard to find.

Another friend says he needs 3gr for his 52-2 to cycle, but mine does fine with 2.7 also is dead on accurate. I think he loads DEWCs and not HBWCs, though. Mine was unfired outside the factory when I bought it, and I've never run anything other than Hornady HBWCs down the barrel.

I've also been told that Remingtons are a bit more accurate than Hornadys, but I can never find Remingtons. I've loaded and shot so dang many Hornadys now that I have no desire to change.

 

[JHZR2]

Good read. I really want to get into reloading.

 

[CT8]

I use 231 or HP38 It works good enough for mid and upper mid loads for 38 special, 9MM,40S@W and 45acp. I have tried Vitavouri 3n37 in 9mm and 40 S@W and I will have to say it is nice powder but it is $10.00 more per pound and I am cheap. For rifles which I hardly shoot anymore 4895 for 30-06 and [308 which I do not have anymore] and I have used 4895 in 223 as well as 748 and if I want to make noise I will use Ramshot TAC. I usually don't load to max loads except in the 300 Weatherby because what else good is 300 Weatherby for.

 

[punisher]

After a few decades.....W231 for light/target loads, or W296 (or H110 which is the same powder) for heavy bullet/full power loads. Upsides, fine powder that goes through a powder throw like butter, and easy to clean residue up after shooting unlike some other powders.

CT8....Sierra 220gr over 80gr of IMR7828. Wonderful way to get that Weatherby shoulder punishment.

 

[Slick17601]

HP-38 and H110 cover .38 & .357 loadings pretty nicely. HP-38 covers all .38 loads thru moderate .357 with H110 coming into play when you want eyebrow burning, full power .357 magnums.

I prefer Clays for .38 target loads and 2400 for .357 since I load almost all cast lead.

 

[Slick17601]

Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Originally Posted By: Fatboymoe
38 special for the Hornady 148gr HBWC, I use Starline brass, and Federal 100 primers. 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I have used this load for my Model 52-2 Smith & Wesson for 30+ years


Not sure if I mentioned in all my rambling, but I do this exact combo also. I don't recall Federal primer numbers, but I do use the(red/gold box) gold medal match SPs. I also use double cannelure wadcutter brass, although this is getting hard to find.

Another friend says he needs 3gr for his 52-2 to cycle, but mine does fine with 2.7 also is dead on accurate. I think he loads DEWCs and not HBWCs, though. Mine was unfired outside the factory when I bought it, and I've never run anything other than Hornady HBWCs down the barrel.

I've also been told that Remingtons are a bit more accurate than Hornadys, but I can never find Remingtons. I've loaded and shot so dang many Hornadys now that I have no desire to change.


Remington wadcutters have been impossible to find for a few years now. Zero and Precision Delta have a good reputation if you prefer a hollow base wadcutter.

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted By: Slick17601
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Originally Posted By: Fatboymoe
38 special for the Hornady 148gr HBWC, I use Starline brass, and Federal 100 primers. 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I have used this load for my Model 52-2 Smith & Wesson for 30+ years


Not sure if I mentioned in all my rambling, but I do this exact combo also. I don't recall Federal primer numbers, but I do use the(red/gold box) gold medal match SPs. I also use double cannelure wadcutter brass, although this is getting hard to find.

Another friend says he needs 3gr for his 52-2 to cycle, but mine does fine with 2.7 also is dead on accurate. I think he loads DEWCs and not HBWCs, though. Mine was unfired outside the factory when I bought it, and I've never run anything other than Hornady HBWCs down the barrel.

I've also been told that Remingtons are a bit more accurate than Hornadys, but I can never find Remingtons. I've loaded and shot so dang many Hornadys now that I have no desire to change.


Remington wadcutters have been impossible to find for a few years now. Zero and Precision Delta have a good reputation if you prefer a hollow base wadcutter.


I've heard good things about them. Are they swaged or cast?

I'm pretty particular about HBWCs, and in particular want swaged pure lead or nearly so. I want my wadcutters to obturate, and I can be sure that soft HBWCs do that. I don't shoot them fast enough to worry about leading. Aside from the pain of casting a hollow base, I also don't do it because even pure lead cast bullets are too hard for my taste and my otherwise preferred alloy(straight wheel weights) is way too hard.

The Hornadys fortunately are not TOO hard to find.

 

[Slick17601]

Remington, Zero and Precision Delta are all staged HBWCS as are Hornady & Speer.