Superb video on nitrogen vs air

[George Bynum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCnWvMleVD0

NOTE: he uses some language not suitable, IMO, for children. I went to his website and think several are very cute and well done. Again, this is an Australian and their standards differ from ours.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

I guess I don't need some YouTube video to tell me that paying for nitrogen in tires is stupid (and I don't know what his opinion may be).

 

[edwardh1]

air is mostly nitrogen

 

[edyvw]

Biggest scam since Good Year rolled out "all season" tire.

 

[SatinSilver]

I know Walmart runs nitrogen in their fleet of trucks. They control costs in their fleet and have it down to a science. If you live in a cold climate and can get a fill of it for a reasonable cost then go for it.

 

[Quattro Pete]

In other news.... water is wet.

 

[Charlie1935]

I always have used 78% nitrogen in all my tires.

 

[SHOZ]

If the O2 will escapes easier than N2, every time you top off the N2 should be getting a higher concentrate.

 

[Kestas]

Finally some facts, numbers, and perspective on this subject. Are any of the facts inaccurate?

 

[redbone3]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
If the O2 will escapes easier than N2, every time you top off the N2 should be getting a higher concentrate.


The size and weight of an Oxygen vs Nitrogen molecule is not different enough to make much of a difference. The two advantages of nitrogen are: 1. No water vapor. 2. Will not support combustion.

 

[Nate1979]

I found this reference interesting. The link is to a pdf report on the permeation difference between O2 and N2. According to the report:

Quote:
O2 "permeates" approximately 3-4 times faster than does N2 through a typical rubber, as is used in tires, primarily
because O2 has a slightly smaller effective molecular size than does N2.


Details here:
http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf

I would be interesting for those who understand the math to check the report.

 

[raytseng]

The crux in all of this is for this is that some places have the gall to charge extra for nitrogen.

Luckily, the biggest player in the nitrogen tire game, Costco, doesn't charge extra for nitrogen. If every place followed this lead and also didn't have a line item charge for nitrogen; then all these comments would take on a completely different bent.
This would work, even if they buried that fee into the tires or a higher mounting fee or somewhere else.
The shop would be thought of like a "top tier" tire shop. Breaking the fee out is a bad move that makes them seem like scammers or nickel-dimers.
It is a bit like the conv vs synthetic arguments or even premium vs regular fuel that boils down to price. If both items were the same price, the consumer feels better because they got something "for free".

If anything this is a case study in marketing and human behavior
Analogy:

Cheeseburger $10
Hamburger $10
Customer response: "What a deal, you get cheese for free"

Cheeseburger $10
Hamburger $9
Customer response: "What a ripoff, $1 extra for cheese" (nobody will say or think I saved $1 by declining cheese)
(i stole this analogy from someone else who was commenting about United's new airline baggage fees)

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I found this reference interesting. The link is to a pdf report on the permeation difference between O2 and N2. According to the report:

Quote:
O2 "permeates" approximately 3-4 times faster than does N2 through a typical rubber, as is used in tires, primarily
because O2 has a slightly smaller effective molecular size than does N2.


Details here:
http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf

I would be interesting for those who understand the math to check the report.


It's not a math question...it's a source question.

You're quoting a nitrogen seller on why you should use nitrogen.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: redbone3
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
If the O2 will escapes easier than N2, every time you top off the N2 should be getting a higher concentrate.


The size and weight of an Oxygen vs Nitrogen molecule is not different enough to make much of a difference. The two advantages of nitrogen are: 1. No water vapor. 2. Will not support combustion.


Which makes sense in an airplane tire...but not on your car.

 

[sdowney717]

Why not use CO2 gas for filling tires. Bigger molecules leak less, and it will not burn.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-non-hardcore/404037-nitrogen-vs-co2-tires.html

 

[SHOZ]

List of diameters

The following table lists the kinetic diameters of some common molecules;
Molecule-Molecular weight-Kinetic diameter picometers (pm)

Hydrogen H2 2 289
Helium He 4 260
Methane CH4 16 380
Water H2O 18 265
Nitrogen N2 28 364
Carbon monoxide CO 28 376
Ethylene C2H4 28 390
Oxygen O2 32 346
Hydrogen sulfide H2S 34 360
Propylene C3H6 42 450
Carbon dioxide CO2 44 330
Propane C3H8 44 430
Benzene C6H6 78 585

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: redbone3
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
If the O2 will escapes easier than N2, every time you top off the N2 should be getting a higher concentrate.


The size and weight of an Oxygen vs Nitrogen molecule is not different enough to make much of a difference. The two advantages of nitrogen are: 1. No water vapor. 2. Will not support combustion.


Which makes sense in an airplane tire...but not on your car.


However, will not support combustion also implies that it will not support oxidation. That does make sense in a car tyre that is in service for a long time, like mine. Maybe not a lot of sense, but some, and if its free (as it can be here) you may as well have it.

 

[Bear]

When we buy tires at Dunn Tire they are filled with nitrogen( no extra charge), and top offs are free. All I can say is that since our tires were nitrogen filled I don't experience low pressure as I used to with regular air. Four vehicles and I would top off at least some of the tires every month, especially in winter.
Whatever the reason, nitrogen seems to hold proper pressure.

 

[Sayjac]

I'll stick with the free 78% variety and check tire pressure occasionally, same as I've always done. Those that choose to pay for the extra ?%N, have at it.

 

[mjoekingz28]

Do tire companies have a nitrogen 'generator' like oxygen has for people with emphysema that they used to have oxygen tanks delivered?