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Warranties voided for E15 users #4274697
12/14/16 03:26 PM
12/14/16 03:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 479
MN, CA
veryHeavy Offline OP
veryHeavy  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 479
MN, CA
"The only cars that would be warranted for use of the new E15 are flex-fuel vehicles, which are designed to use concentrations of ethanol up to 85 percent (E85)." - http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/...akers/index.htm

"Automakers including Chrysler Group LLC, General Motors Co. and Toyota Motor Corp. criticized an EPA plan to allow gasoline containing up to 15 percent ethanol to be used in cars and trucks in the U.S., saying it may void warranties..... 'We have concerns about the potential harmful effects of E15 in engines and fuel systems that were not designed for use of that fuel,' Jody Trapasso, Chrysler's senior vice president of external affairs, wrote." - http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110705/OEM05/307059860/1186#ixzz1RKdnBwWs

Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy] #4274717
12/14/16 03:44 PM
12/14/16 03:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 666
Pindorama
Ohle_Manezzini Offline
Ohle_Manezzini  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 666
Pindorama
And why? Are they still in the 70's? The main hardware difference between a FFV and a gas nowadays, appart fromfuel managment, is the fuel pump that has carbon inductor, instead of copper.

Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: Ohle_Manezzini] #4274745
12/14/16 04:29 PM
12/14/16 04:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 732
Los Gatos CA
djb Offline
djb  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 732
Los Gatos CA
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
And why? Are they still in the 70's? The main hardware difference between a FFV and a gas nowadays, appart fromfuel managment, is the fuel pump that has carbon inductor, instead of copper.


There are major problems with changing to E15. Every bump in alcohol percentage comes with a major increase in corrosion activity and material incompatibility. E85 vehicles typically use stainless steel fuel lines, which are far more expensive and finicky than traditional steel lines.

And ... do you mean that the fuel pump needs a carbon-carbon *commutator*?

Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy] #4274773
12/14/16 05:02 PM
12/14/16 05:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,099
Lakeville, MN
MNgopher Offline
MNgopher  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,099
Lakeville, MN
Note that the articles are from 2011 - over 5 years ago.

To be blunt, if an automaker is making cars today that aren't compatible with E15 today, that's on them, not the EPA.

It is an approved fuel, and the automakers have to deal with it. Willing to bet that if you check the owners manual of any recently manufactured vehicle it will allow E15 use. I know that Ford manuals reflect that as of the 2013 model year.

Last edited by MNgopher; 12/14/16 05:02 PM.
Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy] #4274781
12/14/16 05:10 PM
12/14/16 05:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,396
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,396
Kendall, FL
My Toyota allows up to E15 as do most i believe. Maybe it's a current development.



'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy] #4274783
12/14/16 05:11 PM
12/14/16 05:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,504
Portland, OR
Nate1979 Offline
Nate1979  Offline
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,504
Portland, OR
Why are you trolling with old old articles? You posted the same topic already today.

Last edited by Nate1979; 12/14/16 05:11 PM.

2015 GMC Sierra 2500 6.0L
2010 Subaru Forester 2.5X
Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy] #4274784
12/14/16 05:11 PM
12/14/16 05:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 696
California's Wine Country
SLO_Town Offline
SLO_Town  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 696
California's Wine Country
Ethanol laced fuel should be a moot point. The World has an abundance of gasoline. Look at gasoline prices if in doubt. To continue using ethanol in our fuel demonstrates the power of the corn lobbyists.

--Scott


03 BMW 330Ci (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
10 Honda Element (Kendall GT1 Max 5W-30)
11 BMW 328i (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
15 Ford Focus (Redline 5W-20)
Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy] #4274786
12/14/16 05:13 PM
12/14/16 05:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Boston, MA
HerrStig Offline
HerrStig  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Boston, MA
My 08 Toyota book says E10 and no higher.

Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy] #4274787
12/14/16 05:14 PM
12/14/16 05:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,868
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,868
Kalifornia Kollective
There are a lot of motorcycles, outboards, snow-mobiles and OPE that are not going to be happy. AMA tried to get EPA to reserve one classification of fuel to 10% (such as just premium, or mid-grade) but to no avail ...

Marine fuel and Av-Gas will not be E-15, but many of those locations will not sell to "container customers" Grrrr ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: BrocLuno] #4274815
12/14/16 05:43 PM
12/14/16 05:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,949
Lima, Ohio, USA
earlyre Offline
earlyre  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,949
Lima, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
There are a lot of motorcycles, outboards, snow-mobiles and OPE that are not going to be happy. AMA tried to get EPA to reserve one classification of fuel to 10% (such as just premium, or mid-grade) but to no avail ...

Marine fuel and Av-Gas will not be E-15, but many of those locations will not sell to "container customers" Grrrr ...


so maybe I'm stupid for asking this, but, knowing that the VAST majority of fuel sold in the US has ethanol in it, in varying concentrations, why don't the OPE,etc manufacturers update their materials to be ethanol friendly? I know in my area there IS NO E0 gas available. (also only 1 e85 pump in the county)


Mine:
09 Mercury Sable : 6qts AutoQuest(Meijer/Warren) 0w20, WIX 51516
Mine to Maintain:
03 Pontiac Vibe : 4.5qts VWB 5w30,WIX 51394
Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy] #4274932
12/14/16 08:05 PM
12/14/16 08:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,704
USA
oldhp Offline
oldhp  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,704
USA
My 2010 Ford Ranger 2.3/auto says NO E15 or E85. 2016 Challenger R/T Hemi says 0 to 15% ethanol. You would not believe the difference using 91 octane E-ZERO fuel in either vehicle. Some will say its the higher octane, but they run no different on 89/93 octane E-10 fuel. Ethanol is still supported by our tax dollars. Why??? If its so good, shouldn't it stand on it's own performance in the fuel industry.



Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: oldhp] #4274941
12/14/16 08:17 PM
12/14/16 08:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,686
Massachusetts
turtlevette Offline
turtlevette  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,686
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: oldhp
You would not believe the difference using 91 octane E-ZERO fuel in either vehicle.


Slower right? Flex fuel vehicles gain hp on higher concentrations of ethanol.


USA-1
Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: turtlevette] #4274984
12/14/16 09:10 PM
12/14/16 09:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,704
USA
oldhp Offline
oldhp  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,704
USA
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
[quote=oldhp]You would not believe the difference using 91 octane E-ZERO fuel in either vehicle.


Slower right? Flex fuel vehicles gain hp on higher concentrations of ethanol.

Nope. Smoother, better running engines with better MPG using E-Zero. Gasoline has more thermal units than ethanol. You could use ethanol's power if compression was at least 14:1 and engine was tuned for it. But, less MPG.
The R/T is under 11:1 compression, E85 would be useless with that compression ratio. You can't run two distinctly different fuels with the same engine specs, VVT or not. Just my opinion.... crazy



Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy] #4275346
12/15/16 10:36 AM
12/15/16 10:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,408
New England
Jarlaxle Offline
Jarlaxle  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,408
New England
Your opinion is not supported by facts.


1979 Coupe de Ville, 542 stroker, Super Tech 15W40, Purolator
2011 Crown Vic P71, 5W-20 NextGen, Motorcraft
Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: Jarlaxle] #4275666
12/15/16 06:21 PM
12/15/16 06:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,704
USA
oldhp Offline
oldhp  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,704
USA
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Your opinion is not supported by facts.



Please explain.



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