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#4274697 - 12/14/16 02:26 PM Warranties voided for E15 users
veryHeavy Offline


Registered: 11/04/16
Posts: 479
Loc: MN, CA
"The only cars that would be warranted for use of the new E15 are flex-fuel vehicles, which are designed to use concentrations of ethanol up to 85 percent (E85)." - http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/...akers/index.htm

"Automakers including Chrysler Group LLC, General Motors Co. and Toyota Motor Corp. criticized an EPA plan to allow gasoline containing up to 15 percent ethanol to be used in cars and trucks in the U.S., saying it may void warranties..... 'We have concerns about the potential harmful effects of E15 in engines and fuel systems that were not designed for use of that fuel,' Jody Trapasso, Chrysler's senior vice president of external affairs, wrote." - http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110705/OEM05/307059860/1186#ixzz1RKdnBwWs

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#4274717 - 12/14/16 02:44 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy]
Ohle_Manezzini Offline


Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 666
Loc: Pindorama
And why? Are they still in the 70's? The main hardware difference between a FFV and a gas nowadays, appart fromfuel managment, is the fuel pump that has carbon inductor, instead of copper.

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#4274745 - 12/14/16 03:29 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: Ohle_Manezzini]
djb Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 725
Loc: Los Gatos CA
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
And why? Are they still in the 70's? The main hardware difference between a FFV and a gas nowadays, appart fromfuel managment, is the fuel pump that has carbon inductor, instead of copper.


There are major problems with changing to E15. Every bump in alcohol percentage comes with a major increase in corrosion activity and material incompatibility. E85 vehicles typically use stainless steel fuel lines, which are far more expensive and finicky than traditional steel lines.

And ... do you mean that the fuel pump needs a carbon-carbon *commutator*?

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#4274773 - 12/14/16 04:02 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy]
MNgopher Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 4042
Loc: Lakeville, MN
Note that the articles are from 2011 - over 5 years ago.

To be blunt, if an automaker is making cars today that aren't compatible with E15 today, that's on them, not the EPA.

It is an approved fuel, and the automakers have to deal with it. Willing to bet that if you check the owners manual of any recently manufactured vehicle it will allow E15 use. I know that Ford manuals reflect that as of the 2013 model year.


Edited by MNgopher (12/14/16 04:02 PM)

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#4274781 - 12/14/16 04:10 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8893
Loc: Southeast Florida
My Toyota allows up to E15 as do most i believe. Maybe it's a current development.

_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
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#4274783 - 12/14/16 04:11 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy]
Nate1979 Offline


Registered: 04/08/13
Posts: 3504
Loc: Portland, OR
Why are you trolling with old old articles? You posted the same topic already today.


Edited by Nate1979 (12/14/16 04:11 PM)
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#4274784 - 12/14/16 04:11 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy]
SLO_Town Offline


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 665
Loc: California's Wine Country
Ethanol laced fuel should be a moot point. The World has an abundance of gasoline. Look at gasoline prices if in doubt. To continue using ethanol in our fuel demonstrates the power of the corn lobbyists.

--Scott
_________________________
03 BMW 330Ci (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
10 Honda Element (Castrol Edge EP 5W-30)
11 BMW 328i (Euro Castrol 0W-30)
15 Ford Focus (Castrol Edge EP 5W-20)

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#4274786 - 12/14/16 04:13 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 9560
Loc: Boston, MA
My 08 Toyota book says E10 and no higher.

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#4274787 - 12/14/16 04:14 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5519
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
There are a lot of motorcycles, outboards, snow-mobiles and OPE that are not going to be happy. AMA tried to get EPA to reserve one classification of fuel to 10% (such as just premium, or mid-grade) but to no avail ...

Marine fuel and Av-Gas will not be E-15, but many of those locations will not sell to "container customers" Grrrr ...
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4274815 - 12/14/16 04:43 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: BrocLuno]
earlyre Offline


Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3863
Loc: Lima, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
There are a lot of motorcycles, outboards, snow-mobiles and OPE that are not going to be happy. AMA tried to get EPA to reserve one classification of fuel to 10% (such as just premium, or mid-grade) but to no avail ...

Marine fuel and Av-Gas will not be E-15, but many of those locations will not sell to "container customers" Grrrr ...


so maybe I'm stupid for asking this, but, knowing that the VAST majority of fuel sold in the US has ethanol in it, in varying concentrations, why don't the OPE,etc manufacturers update their materials to be ethanol friendly? I know in my area there IS NO E0 gas available. (also only 1 e85 pump in the county)
_________________________
Mine:
09 Mercury Sable : 6qts AutoQuest(Meijer/Warren) 0w20, WIX 51516
Mine to Maintain:
03 Pontiac Vibe : 4.5qts VWB 5w30,WIX 51394

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#4274932 - 12/14/16 07:05 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy]
oldhp Online   content


Registered: 06/28/12
Posts: 1628
Loc: USA
My 2010 Ford Ranger 2.3/auto says NO E15 or E85. 2016 Challenger R/T Hemi says 0 to 15% ethanol. You would not believe the difference using 91 octane E-ZERO fuel in either vehicle. Some will say its the higher octane, but they run no different on 89/93 octane E-10 fuel. Ethanol is still supported by our tax dollars. Why??? If its so good, shouldn't it stand on it's own performance in the fuel industry.
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#4274941 - 12/14/16 07:17 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: oldhp]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 3561
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: oldhp
You would not believe the difference using 91 octane E-ZERO fuel in either vehicle.


Slower right? Flex fuel vehicles gain hp on higher concentrations of ethanol.
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#4274984 - 12/14/16 08:10 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: turtlevette]
oldhp Online   content


Registered: 06/28/12
Posts: 1628
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
[quote=oldhp]You would not believe the difference using 91 octane E-ZERO fuel in either vehicle.


Slower right? Flex fuel vehicles gain hp on higher concentrations of ethanol.

Nope. Smoother, better running engines with better MPG using E-Zero. Gasoline has more thermal units than ethanol. You could use ethanol's power if compression was at least 14:1 and engine was tuned for it. But, less MPG.
The R/T is under 11:1 compression, E85 would be useless with that compression ratio. You can't run two distinctly different fuels with the same engine specs, VVT or not. Just my opinion.... crazy
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#4275346 - 12/15/16 09:36 AM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: veryHeavy]
Jarlaxle Online   content


Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 8163
Loc: New England
Your opinion is not supported by facts.
_________________________
1979 Coupe de Ville, 542 stroker, Super Tech 15W40, Delco
2011 Crown Vic P71, 5W-20 NextGen, Motorcraft
2014 Harley Sportster 1200T, dealer fill

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#4275666 - 12/15/16 05:21 PM Re: Warranties voided for E15 users [Re: Jarlaxle]
oldhp Online   content


Registered: 06/28/12
Posts: 1628
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Your opinion is not supported by facts.



Please explain.
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