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Bought new car...with direct injection #4272741
12/12/16 11:05 AM
12/12/16 11:05 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,266
Lakeside CA
another Todd Offline OP
another Todd  Offline OP

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,266
Lakeside CA
Despite being adamantly opposed to buying a direct injected vehicle until they figured out intake valve carbon issue...my wife really needed a new car and wanted a Ford Escape, so rather than buying the anemic 2.5, I opted for the 2.0 Eco-boost(she is a sporty driver) knowing I would face these issues down the road.

My question is: would using an oil with the lowest possible volatility rating automatically cause the lowest possible intake valve deposits?
My dealer says they do BG intake cleanings on these engines "all the time" and have no issues but I thought Ford says the intake cleaning by that method destroys the turbocharger; so I would rather avoid the issue in the first place.


2015 Ford F250 Diesel Crew Cab FX4
2017 Ford Escape 2.0
2002 GMC Yukon
2015 Hyundai Accent
2008 Yamaha Rhino 700 FI
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272762
12/12/16 11:28 AM
12/12/16 11:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,426
Central NY
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,426
Central NY
I'm guessing the dealer makes a pretty good profit on the BG intake cleaning and that's why they do it, in spite of Ford's recommendation to avoid doing it.

My parents have one with 65K miles. Run on MC Synblend 5w-30 it's life. It runs fine, no misfires at idle, no pinging.

I wouldn't worry about valve deposits.


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep XJ
01 F-350 4x4 5M
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272774
12/12/16 11:41 AM
12/12/16 11:41 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,435
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
edyvw  Offline

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,435
Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: another Todd
Despite being adamantly opposed to buying a direct injected vehicle until they figured out intake valve carbon issue...my wife really needed a new car and wanted a Ford Escape, so rather than buying the anemic 2.5, I opted for the 2.0 Eco-boost(she is a sporty driver) knowing I would face these issues down the road.

My question is: would using an oil with the lowest possible volatility rating automatically cause the lowest possible intake valve deposits?
My dealer says they do BG intake cleanings on these engines "all the time" and have no issues but I thought Ford says the intake cleaning by that method destroys the turbocharger; so I would rather avoid the issue in the first place.

I would ump those ILSAC GF-5 oils and went with Euo oils since they have lower NOACK.
Since that engine is specd. for lighter oil, I would not go above 13cst, so M1 0W40 FS with 12.9cst and HTHS of 3.6 would be good option. Maybe even better option would be Castrol 0W30 with cst of 12.1 and HTHS of 3.58. NOACK on those oils is very low and they are proven in much more demanding applications. I used nothing but Castrol 0W30/40 in my VW's and M1 0W40 (not as much) and never had issue with 2.0T.
Also, since you are in CA (low Sulfur in gas) you can try Mobil1 5W30 ESP. It is Low-SAPS oil. You not only need low volatility oil but lower SAPS oil. M1 ESP has NOACK of 5.6%, HTHS of 3.58.However, do UOA after 3K to see where is your TBN and TAN. I run it once in my previous car, VW CC in 2.0T engine, and TBN was at 2.1 after 3K, compliment of DI and high sulfur gas. However, CA has lower sulfur in gas, so it might work. You have M1 in NAPA sometimes on sale for $5.99 a liter, otherwise it is $109 for 12 liters on Amazon.

Last edited by edyvw; 12/12/16 11:44 AM.

15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272782
12/12/16 11:50 AM
12/12/16 11:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Indianapolis, IN
09_GXP Offline
09_GXP  Offline

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Indianapolis, IN
Congrats on the new car. I wouldn't worry about valve deposits. If you want to minimize them then run an oil with a low NOACK and give it a good hard run every now and then. The extra heat on the intake valves will help burn off some of the deposits. Even if valves look filthy it may not be impacting performance and if it does it's likely not enough to notice during normal driving.


2017 Miata Global Cup Car #02 - Castol A3/B4 5w30 w/ OEM Fitler
2017 Miata RF - PP 0w20 w/ M1 Filter
2015 F-150 2.7L Ecoboost - PPPP 5w30 w/ MC
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272795
12/12/16 12:18 PM
12/12/16 12:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,254
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,254
US-WA
If the vtwin amsoil 20w40 wasn't so dang expensive I'd try running it, with it's impressive noack of 3.6%. So far I'm using pp 10w30 for the noack values. However pennzoil no longer lists the volatility and I am again in search of affordable low noack oil. May have to go to using amsoil SS....


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 111K Frankenbrew, WIX 57173 (4 sale)
04 YZF-R1 20K Frankenbrew 20w50ish, XG7317
14 RX450h 41k Idemitsu 0w20, WIX 57047
18 RAM 3500 1k VWB 15w40, DBL7349
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272798
12/12/16 12:22 PM
12/12/16 12:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,353
North Carolina
rooflessVW Online content
rooflessVW  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,353
North Carolina
Run the recommended oil for the recommended intervals.

Don't bother with the BG service. I've seen a before and after performed; it doesn't do a thing.

If you valve get dirty enough to cause an issue, remove the intake and clean the valves. (Or pay someone to do it for you.)

Simple as that.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272805
12/12/16 12:31 PM
12/12/16 12:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,007
texas
cptbarkey Offline
cptbarkey  Offline

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,007
texas
My condolences to your cylinder head

Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272810
12/12/16 12:33 PM
12/12/16 12:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,631
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,631
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: another Todd
My question is: would using an oil with the lowest possible volatility rating automatically cause the lowest possible intake valve deposits?

People say this, however, I have not seen any proof one way or the other.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272812
12/12/16 12:38 PM
12/12/16 12:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,551
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline
Cujet  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,551
Jupiter, Florida
The local Ford dealer claims not to be seeing intake valve deposit issues on modern Fords. The tech's don't have to deal with it at all.

I suspect using a quality synthetic will help, as it's vapors, carried in by the PCV system are less likely to carbonize on the valves.

Plus, regardless of what anybody says, turbochargers still get hot, and they are still oil lubricated. A quality full synthetic oil will not produce carbon deposits on the hot side of the turbo.

Water cooling has significantly reduced the turbo failure issue. And turbo bearing/seal/shaft/housing designs have changed to be much more tolerant of minor hot-side coking. But it still happens, and it is still prevented by quality synthetic oils. People are simply unaware of what's happening when they use dino oils in turbocharged vehicles.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: Quattro Pete] #4272824
12/12/16 12:52 PM
12/12/16 12:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,353
North Carolina
rooflessVW Online content
rooflessVW  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,353
North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: another Todd
My question is: would using an oil with the lowest possible volatility rating automatically cause the lowest possible intake valve deposits?

People say this, however, I have not seen any proof one way or the other.


Neither have I. The cars we maintained regularly at VW, even once we switched to Castrol OE with its higher NOACK, never seemed to have an issue.

Even the cars we never saw until they had problems we didn't start to see until near the 100k mark. And who knows where and when and with what oil they got serviced with.

Ford has far fewer problems with deposits than VW, especially on their later engines. The earlier 3.5 is known to have some deposit issues; I don't know if it applies across the board but I don't think it does.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272826
12/12/16 12:54 PM
12/12/16 12:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 13,460
The Old North State
Sayjac Offline
Sayjac  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 13,460
The Old North State
My advice, don't worry about it. I'd suggest sticking to top tier gas, use a quality oil preferably synthetic imo. Maybe add a bottle of Techron CFSC or Gumout Regane High Mileage FSC once an oci. Beyond that, just drive it and enjoy it.

Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272828
12/12/16 12:55 PM
12/12/16 12:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,897
MA
Wolf359 Offline
Wolf359  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,897
MA
I thought using good gas like Top Tier is supposed to be good for direct injection engines, less likely to cause deposit.

Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272833
12/12/16 01:02 PM
12/12/16 01:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,520
NoVA
Jimzz Offline
Jimzz  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,520
NoVA
Most American and Asian cars do not have the really bad issues as many European cars. I would still spray out the throttle body every 10k with carb cleaner.


yup
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: Wolf359] #4272834
12/12/16 01:02 PM
12/12/16 01:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,353
North Carolina
rooflessVW Online content
rooflessVW  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,353
North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
I thought using good gas like Top Tier is supposed to be good for direct injection engines, less likely to cause deposit.


"Top-Tier" fuel keeps your injector tips clean, which is more critical in Direct Injection engines.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Bought new car...with direct injection [Re: another Todd] #4272838
12/12/16 01:07 PM
12/12/16 01:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,393
Raleigh ,NC
rshaw125 Offline
rshaw125  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,393
Raleigh ,NC
New Escape? Then it has the 2nd version of the 2.0 Ecoboost. When I bought my Edge I asked about any issues with the 2.0 Ecoboost. All the replies said they were very reliable and issue free.
I plan to run mine on Mobil 1.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
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