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#4248767 - 11/13/16 05:24 PM Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 11251
Loc: NorthEast
and be better than iPhone7 in taking low light pictures? I am coming up with a blank, The "good" cameras that I am interested cost as much as an iPhone7 or more (aka Sony RX Mark IV and similar). If I am not willing to carry DSLR or other full frame interchangeable lens camera, is there even a point in trying to find a pocket camera? I should probably try to come up with a battery case for an iPhone rather than putting that money in to a new camera.

I suspect similar rationale applies to high end android phones too. They seem to take at least as good snaps as an iPhone.


Edited by Vikas (11/13/16 05:26 PM)

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#4248771 - 11/13/16 05:35 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
tomcat27 Offline


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 3564
Loc: Chicago, IL
There is no reason to travel with any camera other than your phone. I've got a full-frame sensor Nikon that I use for professional sports work - but for travel and candids an iPhone or equivalent meets most needs and you always have it with you. Plus they are very easy to post pictures on FB, SC, etc.
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#4248788 - 11/13/16 06:06 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
madRiver Offline


Registered: 07/11/15
Posts: 3545
Loc: New England
The market is nearly gone for low to middle end due to smartphones.

I think only the upper end is left and honestly few but them. Smartphones do incredibly well because of extensive programming and already present processor for it. A point and shoot the processor is just cost limiting the the rest of design.

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#4248791 - 11/13/16 06:18 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11018
Loc: Idaho
P&S cameras are dead.
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#4248797 - 11/13/16 06:30 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
SumpChump Offline


Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 1978
Loc: Upper Midwest by the Lakes USA
Originally Posted By: Vikas
and be better than iPhone7 in taking low light pictures? I am coming up with a blank, The "good" cameras that I am interested cost as much as an iPhone7 or more (aka Sony RX Mark IV and similar). If I am not willing to carry DSLR or other full frame interchangeable lens camera, is there even a point in trying to find a pocket camera? I should probably try to come up with a battery case for an iPhone rather than putting that money in to a new camera.

I suspect similar rationale applies to high end android phones too. They seem to take at least as good snaps as an iPhone.


Have you ever used the Sony RX100 series? As a photographer, I have. I rented the Mark 1 for a trip to St. Louis. Outstanding performer. The latest is blazing fast. Rent one from Lens Rentals. ( I do not work for them) That's who I rented from. It was a cheap rental which yielded great photos of the trip without having to get mugged over a large DSLR in East St. Louis like Clark Griswold.

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#4248798 - 11/13/16 06:30 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: CT8]
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 12004
Loc: NH
Originally Posted By: CT8
P&S cameras are dead.


Probably true, but I still kinda like mine. Takes AA's, which means it gobbles them--badly. Then again, I leave the battery compartment door open, so the camera is always "ready to go"; and wherever I go, AA's can be found.

Camera in my phone is junk, barely good for taking a snap while shopping, no flash, no stabilization, etc.
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#4248821 - 11/13/16 06:53 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35897
Loc: Great Lakes
Good low light performance requires a large sensor, and that unfortunately means $$$, so yes, you are looking at a camera that costs as much as a high end smartphone.

But really, even with a high end camera, high ISO shots are going to be poor quality, so you are better off manually limiting the ISO and using a tripod instead. You could probably do the same with your iPhone and some third party camera app.
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#4248835 - 11/13/16 07:04 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: SumpChump]
Vern_in_IL Offline


Registered: 06/25/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: IL
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Originally Posted By: Vikas
and be better than iPhone7 in taking low light pictures? I am coming up with a blank, The "good" cameras that I am interested cost as much as an iPhone7 or more (aka Sony RX Mark IV and similar). If I am not willing to carry DSLR or other full frame interchangeable lens camera, is there even a point in trying to find a pocket camera? I should probably try to come up with a battery case for an iPhone rather than putting that money in to a new camera.

I suspect similar rationale applies to high end android phones too. They seem to take at least as good snaps as an iPhone.


Have you ever used the Sony RX100 series? As a photographer, I have. I rented the Mark 1 for a trip to St. Louis. Outstanding performer. The latest is blazing fast. Rent one from Lens Rentals. ( I do not work for them) That's who I rented from. It was a cheap rental which yielded great photos of the trip without having to get mugged over a large DSLR in East St. Louis like Clark Griswold.


THIS guy! The others are talking out their [censored]!
Go to the 7:00 mark of this video:
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#4248839 - 11/13/16 07:09 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 12653
Loc: NE,Ohio
Get a moto z with the camera attachment from hasselblad?
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#4248882 - 11/13/16 08:03 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 32671
Loc: ME
Bigger sensors rock.

DX sensor (18x24mm) on a Nikon D3200 DSLR w/ 28mm f/2.5 lens wide open, ISO 1600, 1/40 sec. Gets shadows like nobody's business. I hope Nikon uses a similar sensor on a P&S but am not familiar with their various series.


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#4248884 - 11/13/16 08:04 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
WishIhadatruck Offline


Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 1397
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
I use an Olympus waterproof p&s camera when a durable waterproof camera is desired, otherwise I use my phone or DSLR. I use the DSLR a LOT when photo quality is important, especially when you need to grab an action shot or the light is getting low. As long as you don't need to zoom, my Olympus is pretty nice. Good in low light, tough and quick to snap a photo. Quicker to focus and take the shot than many cameras other than DSLR's.
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#4248935 - 11/13/16 09:06 PM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
daves87rs Offline


Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 16986
Loc: Michigan
Like my Panasonic Lumix camera....it's like 6-7 years old, but still takes great pictures...
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#4249184 - 11/14/16 07:57 AM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 11251
Loc: NorthEast
We have older Panasonic Lumix which has been badly bruised but still works and a slightly newer waterproof Fuji XP70 which I have never liked and the iPhone 6s and iPhone 6s+ I used all four on our recent trip to Bahama When I compared the photos on the computer screen, I don't even have to look at Exif data to know which ones were taken by iPhone. The quality difference is vast between the Fuji and iPhones. Panasonic is better than Fuji but still under iPhones. It is just amazing that Exif data shows bigger aperture, lower iso for the similar photos taken by iPhone. Albeit shutter speed is slower too but it must have lot better stabilizer. How in the world such micro lens of iPhone is able to beat P&S glass or for that matter sensor? The camera portion of the iPhone could not cost more than $50, so how come $300 dedicated camera not able to beat it?

Yes, Sony RX series have excellent reputation but also carries hefty price tag to go with it.

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#4249234 - 11/14/16 08:52 AM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35897
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Panasonic is better than Fuji but still under iPhones.

Can you elaborate? What are the shooting conditions? What makes the cameras "under"?


Quote:
It is just amazing that Exif data shows bigger aperture, lower iso for the similar photos taken by iPhone. Albeit shutter speed is slower too but it must have lot better stabilizer.

When light is plentiful, phone cameras generally do a pretty good job. Things start to fall apart in low light situations. I've looked at several photos my wife took with her iPhone 6s of our kid in our living room. First, shutter speed was low (1/24s), which is terrible for photographing a child that is always in motion - you end up with motion blur. Second, ISO was up to 200, which shows as pretty bad noise in the photo at full res. Granted, if you downsize it to 800x600 for posting on the web or emailing to family, it'll take care of the noise issue, but what if you want to print it and frame it in a larger size or even display on a 4K TV?

Most modern P&S cameras will have decent noise performance up to about ISO 400, give or take. DSLR - ISO 800-1600. DSLRs will also be able to capture wider dynamic range, especially if you shoot in RAW, so that you can adjust exposure, and correct highlights and shadows in post processing. Granted, most casual photographers don't want to bother with post processing. I get that.

And the answer to freezing motion and avoiding motion blur while keeping ISO down is a good flash, as that will allow you to use faster shutter speeds. I typically shoot at 1/160s indoors. You also want indirect flash for a more even exposure. Otherwise, a straight-on direct flash produces harsh results. A standalone camera makes it easier to hook up an external/indirect flash. But again, that's more gear and more setup time. Sometimes by the time I pull out my DSLR and set up the external flash, the photo opportunity is gone while my wife managed to capture it with her iPhone. Is her photo as good of a quality? Of course not, but at least she captured something.


Quote:
How in the world such micro lens of iPhone is able to beat P&S glass or for that matter sensor?

How old are the cameras? How old is the phone? Technology does not stand still.
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#4249238 - 11/14/16 08:58 AM Re: Is it possible to buy a better P&S travel camera [Re: Vikas]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 11251
Loc: NorthEast
Quote:
How old are the cameras? How old is the phone? Technology does not stand still.
Well, I am looking for todays P&S camera with better performance at $300 price point. This does not exist.

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