Some will call me crazy
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Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Anything smaller then 30 micron will pass straight through the filter & continue wearing the engine. Draining the oil removes those metal bits.
Really? That's the limit is it? So no filter ever catches particles smaller than 30 microns? So it's just a cutoff, not a probability of any sort?
Is it always 30 microns throughout the life of the filter? What about different filters, is the cutoff 30 microns for all filters?
Where did you learn this fact?
Anything smaller then 30 micron will pass straight through the filter & continue wearing the engine. Draining the oil removes those metal bits.
Really? That's the limit is it? So no filter ever catches particles smaller than 30 microns? So it's just a cutoff, not a probability of any sort?
Is it always 30 microns throughout the life of the filter? What about different filters, is the cutoff 30 microns for all filters?
Where did you learn this fact?
We're discussing Hyundai's filter. I have no data on Hyundai specifically, but most carmaker's filters (like Honda and Toyota) will only catch 60% of 20 micron items (the other 40% pass straight through). About 5% of 10 micron items. And essentially 0% of anything smaller.
The only way to extract the sub-10 micron metal shavings from manufacturing is (1) a bypass filter or (2) dump the factory fill oil (along with the unfiltered metal).
IMHO
The only way to extract the sub-10 micron metal shavings from manufacturing is (1) a bypass filter or (2) dump the factory fill oil (along with the unfiltered metal).
IMHO
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
We're discussing Hyundai's filter. I have no data on Hyundai specifically, but most carmaker's filters (like Honda and Toyota) will only catch 60% of 20 micron items (the other 40% pass straight through). About 5% of 10 micron items. And essentially 0% of anything smaller.
The only way to extract the sub-10 micron metal shavings from manufacturing is (1) a bypass filter or (2) dump the factory fill oil (along with the unfiltered metal).
Ahha, I see. Sorry, I thought you said:
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Anything smaller then 30 micron will pass straight through the filter & continue wearing the engine.
And where did you get efficiency data for Honda and Toyota OEM filters, or for any OEM ones for that matter? Do those numbers apply all their part numbers or certain ones only? Does that apply to both the cartridge and the spin-on types?
We're discussing Hyundai's filter. I have no data on Hyundai specifically, but most carmaker's filters (like Honda and Toyota) will only catch 60% of 20 micron items (the other 40% pass straight through). About 5% of 10 micron items. And essentially 0% of anything smaller.
The only way to extract the sub-10 micron metal shavings from manufacturing is (1) a bypass filter or (2) dump the factory fill oil (along with the unfiltered metal).
Ahha, I see. Sorry, I thought you said:
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Anything smaller then 30 micron will pass straight through the filter & continue wearing the engine.
And where did you get efficiency data for Honda and Toyota OEM filters, or for any OEM ones for that matter? Do those numbers apply all their part numbers or certain ones only? Does that apply to both the cartridge and the spin-on types?
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
We're discussing Hyundai's filter. I have no data on Hyundai specifically, but most carmaker's filters (like Honda and Toyota) will only catch 60% of 20 micron items (the other 40% pass straight through).
They are never caught and continue to circulate until the oil is changed?
We're discussing Hyundai's filter. I have no data on Hyundai specifically, but most carmaker's filters (like Honda and Toyota) will only catch 60% of 20 micron items (the other 40% pass straight through).
They are never caught and continue to circulate until the oil is changed?
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: edyvw
You can stay with Castrol 0W40. Personally in your area during winter I would switch to Castrol 0W30 or run 0W30 all year around if you are not making that many miles and you change oil once a year. 0W30 will do great in that engine and since it is DI engine, and 0W30 has lower NOACK then 0W40, it will create less CBU.
Buying Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4 is a little expensive up here compared to the 0w-40 A3/B4, which is available in jugs. The best bet is to wait for the 0w-40 jugs to be on special and get a few. Finding 0w-30 at under $8 a litre these days is next to impossible. It was fine when it and M1 0w-40 were the only game in town and were both only in 1 litre bottles, but fortunately, things have changed.
Bunny: Edyvw was recommending PCMOs, and approved ones at that. My recommendations are in the above paragraph, and are based upon price considerations. Shell and Imperial Oil also have approved lubricants, as you mention. NAPA Canada has the Shell stuff in EcoBoxes on special, if that floats your boat.
Yeah, I use 0W40 because price does not justify 0W30 considering it is same base stock oil.
If price difference is that big, Castrol 0W40 is way to go or Mobil1 0W40.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
You can stay with Castrol 0W40. Personally in your area during winter I would switch to Castrol 0W30 or run 0W30 all year around if you are not making that many miles and you change oil once a year. 0W30 will do great in that engine and since it is DI engine, and 0W30 has lower NOACK then 0W40, it will create less CBU.
Buying Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4 is a little expensive up here compared to the 0w-40 A3/B4, which is available in jugs. The best bet is to wait for the 0w-40 jugs to be on special and get a few. Finding 0w-30 at under $8 a litre these days is next to impossible. It was fine when it and M1 0w-40 were the only game in town and were both only in 1 litre bottles, but fortunately, things have changed.
Bunny: Edyvw was recommending PCMOs, and approved ones at that. My recommendations are in the above paragraph, and are based upon price considerations. Shell and Imperial Oil also have approved lubricants, as you mention. NAPA Canada has the Shell stuff in EcoBoxes on special, if that floats your boat.
Yeah, I use 0W40 because price does not justify 0W30 considering it is same base stock oil.
If price difference is that big, Castrol 0W40 is way to go or Mobil1 0W40.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
And where did you get efficiency data for Honda and Toyota OEM filters, or for any OEM ones for that matter? Do those numbers apply all their part numbers or certain ones only? Does that apply to both the cartridge and the spin-on types?
I apologize but I have a job that demands 12 hours/day and not enough time to trackdown the data you seek (which would take hours). The information about Honda and Toyota and other OEM filters is on google. I'll give you a jumpstart: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=honda+oil+filter+efficiency
BOTTOM LINE: No inline filter will remove all the metal shavings left by manufacturing. Oh here's another link you might find useful: http://papers.sae.org/881827/ Have fun doing the research.
And where did you get efficiency data for Honda and Toyota OEM filters, or for any OEM ones for that matter? Do those numbers apply all their part numbers or certain ones only? Does that apply to both the cartridge and the spin-on types?
I apologize but I have a job that demands 12 hours/day and not enough time to trackdown the data you seek (which would take hours). The information about Honda and Toyota and other OEM filters is on google. I'll give you a jumpstart: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=honda+oil+filter+efficiency
BOTTOM LINE: No inline filter will remove all the metal shavings left by manufacturing. Oh here's another link you might find useful: http://papers.sae.org/881827/ Have fun doing the research.
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
We're discussing Hyundai's filter. I have no data on Hyundai specifically, but most carmaker's filters (like Honda and Toyota) will only catch 60% of 20 micron items (the other 40% pass straight through). About 5% of 10 micron items. And essentially 0% of anything smaller.
The only way to extract the sub-10 micron metal shavings from manufacturing is (1) a bypass filter or (2) dump the factory fill oil (along with the unfiltered metal).
IMHO
Your completely correct in your statement from independent lab test I saw online which included AC delco filter was one of the worst possible filtering out of all of them. Which doesn't surprise me given it's OEM filter. I've owned few new cars when I did the first drain they were definitely shimmering from metal not being filtered and manufacturing particles. This was Nissan, two chevys. Only way to deal with this is quality filter like fram xg, royal purple, amsoil filter their media has best filtering. Ideally bypass system fixes all the problems.
We're discussing Hyundai's filter. I have no data on Hyundai specifically, but most carmaker's filters (like Honda and Toyota) will only catch 60% of 20 micron items (the other 40% pass straight through). About 5% of 10 micron items. And essentially 0% of anything smaller.
The only way to extract the sub-10 micron metal shavings from manufacturing is (1) a bypass filter or (2) dump the factory fill oil (along with the unfiltered metal).
IMHO
Your completely correct in your statement from independent lab test I saw online which included AC delco filter was one of the worst possible filtering out of all of them. Which doesn't surprise me given it's OEM filter. I've owned few new cars when I did the first drain they were definitely shimmering from metal not being filtered and manufacturing particles. This was Nissan, two chevys. Only way to deal with this is quality filter like fram xg, royal purple, amsoil filter their media has best filtering. Ideally bypass system fixes all the problems.
Thanks, but it was a trick question as neither Toyota nor Honda publish efficiency data for any of their filters. The only thing I've ever seen is that old Amsoil chart that's trotted out every time this subject comes up. It may or may not be correct for each and every filter, who knows?
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Originally Posted By: kschachn
And where did you get efficiency data for Honda and Toyota OEM filters, or for any OEM ones for that matter? Do those numbers apply all their part numbers or certain ones only? Does that apply to both the cartridge and the spin-on types?
I apologize but I have a job that demands 12 hours/day and not enough time to trackdown the data you seek (which would take hours). The information about Honda and Toyota and other OEM filters is on google. I'll give you a jumpstart: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=honda+oil+filter+efficiency
BOTTOM LINE: No inline filter will remove all the metal shavings left by manufacturing. Oh here's another link you might find useful: http://papers.sae.org/881827/ Have fun doing the research.
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Originally Posted By: kschachn
And where did you get efficiency data for Honda and Toyota OEM filters, or for any OEM ones for that matter? Do those numbers apply all their part numbers or certain ones only? Does that apply to both the cartridge and the spin-on types?
I apologize but I have a job that demands 12 hours/day and not enough time to trackdown the data you seek (which would take hours). The information about Honda and Toyota and other OEM filters is on google. I'll give you a jumpstart: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=honda+oil+filter+efficiency
BOTTOM LINE: No inline filter will remove all the metal shavings left by manufacturing. Oh here's another link you might find useful: http://papers.sae.org/881827/ Have fun doing the research.
Originally Posted By: Shata
Your completely correct in your statement from independent lab test I saw online which included AC delco filter was one of the worst possible filtering out of all of them. Which doesn't surprise me given it's OEM filter. I've owned few new cars when I did the first drain they were definitely shimmering from metal not being filtered and manufacturing particles. This was Nissan, two chevys. Only way to deal with this is quality filter like fram xg, royal purple, amsoil filter their media has best filtering. Ideally bypass system fixes all the problems.
And yet I've gotten all the miles I have on both my Toyotas and the Honda by using mostly OEM filters since new.
I also went the full OCI on the initial fill, was I just lucky or doesn't it really matter? None of them have excessive consumption yet, will I see it sometime soon?
Your completely correct in your statement from independent lab test I saw online which included AC delco filter was one of the worst possible filtering out of all of them. Which doesn't surprise me given it's OEM filter. I've owned few new cars when I did the first drain they were definitely shimmering from metal not being filtered and manufacturing particles. This was Nissan, two chevys. Only way to deal with this is quality filter like fram xg, royal purple, amsoil filter their media has best filtering. Ideally bypass system fixes all the problems.
And yet I've gotten all the miles I have on both my Toyotas and the Honda by using mostly OEM filters since new.
I also went the full OCI on the initial fill, was I just lucky or doesn't it really matter? None of them have excessive consumption yet, will I see it sometime soon?
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Thanks, but it was a trick question
Translation: Welcome to the forum! We like hazing newbs.
Even if Toyota published numbers for their filters I wouldn't trust them. Toyota has a history of voiding engine warranties & leaving customers with the $7000 repair bill. I put T in the same category as GM
Thanks, but it was a trick question
Translation: Welcome to the forum! We like hazing newbs.
Even if Toyota published numbers for their filters I wouldn't trust them. Toyota has a history of voiding engine warranties & leaving customers with the $7000 repair bill. I put T in the same category as GM
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Translation: Welcome to the forum! We like hazing newbs.
You're a newb?
Hmm, somehow I didn't think you were.
Translation: Welcome to the forum! We like hazing newbs.
You're a newb?
Hmm, somehow I didn't think you were.
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