cold weather ATF for old Chrysler tranny

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ofelas
Here is what I don't understand I reckon -

Amsoil ATF+4 = Pour point -53c and Brookfield viscosity = 9755 at -40c

ATF+4 (PetroCan) = Pour point -51c and Brookfield viscosity = 8380 at -40c

Is it pour point or Brookfield viscosity at -40 that indicates cold weather performance?

Full specs -

PetroCanada ATF+4 - http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/resour...amp;language=en

Amsoil sig ATF - http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3110.pdf

I was told that ATL is too thin for summer use in the old non lockup 46RH



MRV is more important than pour point, so the PetroCan stuff has the better cold performance.

However

If the AMSOIL ATF+4 is a non-certified fluid and uses a PAO base, then it will retain its cold performance better IMHO.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ofelas
How did this pour point co-relate to brookfield vis at -40 ?

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: ofelas
Price is not a concern


Then use Redline C+ with its pour point of -76 F

No other ATF will work better, especially in the extreme cold.


It doesn't. Pour point is pour point and is a very vague reference point. Actual visc measurement is far more meaningful, so in your case the brookfield value is the more valuable of the two.

 

[demarpaint]

I'd probably use ATF+4 and LG red. AFT+4 is a synthetic fluid and backwards compatible for older Chrysler units. It's a step above what the older units originally spec'd.

 

[ofelas]

I've heard of Dex3 + LG Black.

Why the LG added to ATF+4, what does it do exactly?

 

[ofelas]

Thats part of what I don't understand. The Brookfield of Amsoil is close to 10,000 while ATF+4 is about 8400.

The Amsoil will still flow better & get up to operating temp quicker than ATF+4 ?

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ofelas
How did this pour point co-relate to brookfield vis at -40 ?

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: ofelas
Price is not a concern


Then use Redline C+ with its pour point of -76 F

No other ATF will work better, especially in the extreme cold.


It doesn't. Pour point is pour point and is a very vague reference point. Actual visc measurement is far more meaningful, so in your case the brookfield value is the more valuable of the two.

 

[mrdctaylor]

I don't see it mentioned here that often, but what about Mobil 1 ATF? I've used it for 14 years (drain/fill every 30K miles) in my 2002 Toyota Tacoma that specs DEX III. I drive it every day and have never had an issue.

 

[ac_tc]

Sober up here..
were talking about -40c and i seriously doubt anyone just gets in the car and drive away imideately at these temps..
Im pretty sure that the tranny will get a minute or two atleast to warm up and at that Point ordinary atf+4 without any "snakeoil" is perfectly ok.

 

[ofelas]

They do make an ATF+4 as well; most ATF+4 seems to have lower viscosity at -40 than Dex3.

Not sure whether there is any real difference between different brands of ATF+4

 

[4WD]

Some of those are GIII - you seem to prefer GIV/V (Ams, M1, Redline) ... one could leave Redline in there for a long time ...
Bottom line is your radiator "cooler" is a heater during your winter - let that machine warm up and these fancy fluids can work.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ofelas
Thats part of what I don't understand. The Brookfield of Amsoil is close to 10,000 while ATF+4 is about 8400.

The Amsoil will still flow better & get up to operating temp quicker than ATF+4 ?


Virgin for virgin, the ATF +4 would flow better at -40C. However below that, it may not be the case depending on how each product is based. So no to your 2nd point on virgin for virgin, the ATF+4 would be "better" there.

The issue is when the products get some age on them. If the AMSOIL product relies strictly on PAO for its low temp performance and the ATF+4 uses PPD's, the PPD's may potentially degrade, causing a loss of cold temperature performance, whilst the PAO won't.

 

[ofelas]

Succinctly put in any easy to understand format, with an actual explanation on cold weather performance.

Takes a 'hoser, eh?

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted By: ofelas
How did this pour point co-relate to brookfield vis at -40 ?

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: ofelas
Price is not a concern


Then use Redline C+ with its pour point of -76 F

No other ATF will work better, especially in the extreme cold.


Redline C+ Brookfield at -40C is 3800 cp

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: ofelas
How did this pour point co-relate to brookfield vis at -40 ?

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: ofelas
Price is not a concern


Then use Redline C+ with its pour point of -76 F

No other ATF will work better, especially in the extreme cold.


Redline C+ Brookfield at -40C is 3800 cp


Yup, it has excellent cold temp viscosity characteristics. But realistically any of them are going to work fine at Ontario winter temperatures.

 

[ofelas]

Winter in Winnipeg, unfortunately...Brookfield seemed to be a good term due to its -40 spec.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ofelas
Winter in Winnipeg, unfortunately...Brookfield seemed to be a good term due to its -40 spec.


Ahhhh, didn't see good old Winterpeg in your location there

Then yes, the Brookfield value is definitely of value to you and you can see that none of them are overly "heavy" even at -40C.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: ofelas
Old tranny, fresh rebuild.

Not sure I need the seal conditioners in Maxlife ATF; any definitive info on why it's better than ATF+4/Amsoil/Redline C+ ?


Price and cold weather performance.

 

[ofelas]

Just an update - built a new 47RH with all the billet goodies a couple 1000 miles back, and used Schaeffer's 204S-AT.

No issues with the recent -42 weather, a minute or two in Neutral, and went into lockup & OD within 1/2 mile when I merged onto the hwy.

Why Schaeffer's ? Because I had a couple cases comped my way. The leftover 5 quarts went towards a pan drop on another vehicle with a 727.

Next time, I'll try the Redline C+

Thanks to all who were helpful in answering my questions.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ofelas
Winter in Winnipeg, unfortunately...Brookfield seemed to be a good term due to its -40 spec.


Ahhhh, didn't see good old Winterpeg in your location there

Then yes, the Brookfield value is definitely of value to you and you can see that none of them are overly "heavy" even at -40C.

 

[Smoqueed]

Last I checked, ATF+4 and dex/merc are mutually exclusive. You can't meet both specs at the same time. Apparently Schaeffer and Amsoil disagree, but I've read too many horror stories of using "universal" ATFs in Chrysler trannies. Personally I would only put in a licensed ATF+4 or use Redline C+ since they buy the true ATF+4 add pack and mix it with a PAO/POE base. But hey if it works, it works, curious to see how it holds up!

 

[ofelas]

In theory, you are correct.

However, the Schaeffer's & Amsoil do just fine in a non electronic tranny; the ones I use have a hydraulic lockup circuit (merely electrically activated).

I have run Amsoil, Dex, ATF+3/+4 and now Schaeffers in pretty much every 727 & RH transmission out there.

A lot of folks forget that 46RH/518 and earlier, spec'd either ATF+3 or Dex/Merc or both, and mixing/top up with either was OK.

No real difference, all work well, even with factory clutches, but I sometimes tune fluid thicknesses to fine tune stall speeds