Shell Helix the actual factory fill for Mercedes

[Flying_A]

Hey All,
Talking about this in another sub forum and it appears this isn't common knowledge... All standard non-AMG Mercedes models do indeed come with Shell Helix in the sump from the factory while M1 is the "in service fill."

Thought I'd throw it out there as I'm sure most people assume one is the same as the other.

http://www.shell.com/motorist/oils-lubri...l-ab-5w-30.html

 

[Olas]

You can't switch brands without causing leaks and consumption.
Mercedes really should know better...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Flying_A
while M1 is the "in service fill."

Sometimes. There have been reports of MB service depts using Valvoline instead of M1 for servicing.

 

[SonofJoe]

You need to be careful interpreting the exact words Shell uses in their advertising.

Does Shell supply the MB factory fill oil? Probably yes.

Is Shell Helix 5W30 Ultra Professional AB the MB factory fill oil? Maybe but I'd say probably not. That would be a 'special' oil containing lots of goodies that has passed all the in-house tests that you never get to see or hear about but all the OEMs insist upon. It might not even have any branding other than Shell MB FF.

Is this Shell Helix 5W30 oil RELATED to the MB FF oil. Quite probably yes but maybe in the same way I'm related to my brother who I've spoken to twice in the last thirty years! If the only luggage labels this oil carries are SL/A3/B4/MB229.5, then it's hardly exotic by today's standards.

 

[Flying_A]

As we all know, hardly any OEM's choose an oil over it's quality. And this goes to show, from a cross marketing perspective, Mobil 1 fits the in-service/consumer market for a marque like Mercedes much better in terms of branding IMO, in NA at least.

I'm sure the check XOM cut had something to do with it too. That's what many of these contracts are about, not a technical partnership but a marketing partnership.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Err, I think you will find that Merc, BMW and Porsche use the best FF and dealer oils available. That used to be
Mobil 1, but they are all changing over to Shell Ultra for approved oils for their latest cars. Not sure who does their FF oils, but would not be surprised if those contracts have not changed.

 

[FCD]

Shell Helix Ultra is also the factory fill for all new Ferraris ( i think )

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Err, I think you will find that Merc, BMW and Porsche use the best FF and dealer oils available. That used to be
Mobil 1, but they are all changing over to Shell Ultra for approved oils for their latest cars. Not sure who does their FF oils, but would not be surprised if those contracts have not changed.


BMW used to be Castrol, that is now SOPUS. I haven't heard anything about Porsche changing but VAG has arrangements with all three oil companies IIRC.

 

[JHZR2]

That's really no surprise. I recall on my Saab 9-3, Elf Excellium was the FF while Mobil 1 was on the sticker underhood...

 

[SonofJoe]

I suspect Shell is in the process of trying to bag as much OEM FF business as possible simply because it believes it befits its status as the world's biggest lubricant blender.

I never quite understood why oil companies bend over backwards and lavish inordinate amounts of cash to secure FF business. It might impress Formula 1 followers but it means nothing to the average bloke in the street.

 

[dexos]

Originally Posted By: Flying_A
Hey All,
Talking about this in another sub forum and it appears this isn't common knowledge... All standard non-AMG Mercedes models do indeed come with Shell Helix in the sump from the factory while M1 is the "in service fill."

Thought I'd throw it out there as I'm sure most people assume one is the same as the other.

http://www.shell.com/motorist/oils-lubri...l-ab-5w-30.html


Mercedes Factory fill is Fuchs (also Fuchs inside Original Mercedes engine oil bottles used in service fill).
AMG Factory fill is Mobil 1 0w-40 (Aftersales with AMG Petronas oil).

Shell is FF of BMW: http://www.shell.com/business-customers/...l-supplier.html

 

[Garak]

Some people are rather brand loyal, so perhaps it's worthwhile to them.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I suspect Shell is in the process of trying to bag as much OEM FF business as possible simply because it believes it befits its status as the world's biggest lubricant blender.

I never quite understood why oil companies bend over backwards and lavish inordinate amounts of cash to secure FF business. It might impress Formula 1 followers but it means nothing to the average bloke in the street.


I can assure you that Shell does not lose money on FF or OEM oil contracts. Castrol and Mobil do make some lose leader deals, but the reason Shell won the last set of deals with German car makers was that their Ulta is GTL based and is simply a better oil than the older M1 was. Fuchs are the world leaders in FF oils and also do not sign loss making deals (Fuchs are the major stock holder in Liqui Moly, so LM don't chase OEM oil contracts that they bid for).

Merc, Porsche and BMW test a number of different oils in the lab using the latest radiometric particle analysis, which is done in real time to avoid the need to shut the engine down when changing the oil mix. They nearly always select their OEM and FF oils based on those test results.

 

[SR5]

Interesting, another 5W30 oil that is API SL and ACEA A3/B4 and OEM spec. Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 is also SL due to it's elevated zinc & Phos levels, so I assume the Shell Helix Ultra is SL for the same reason, extra ZDDP. Castrol state this clearly, it's SN in quality, but has elevated Zinc & Phos levels forcing it to be classed SL.

I have no knowledge to say if this is the true FF or not, but if we take things at face value and assume it is, then FF is a full synthetic with extra zinc. Which tells me it's OK to use a synthetic in a new engine, no need to run it in on a mineral oil, and that new engines like a bit of extra zinc.

In the old days people used a high zinc mineral running-in or breaking-in oil. Today a quality synthetic with a bit of extra ZDDP appears suitable to run it in and then go the distance.

 

[UltrafanUK]

There are about a dozen different versions of both Shell Ultra and Castrol Edge. The OEM approvals relate to just one specific oil that is often one of the so called professional series.

A good break in oil will have as much Zinc based additives as the exhaust system will allow, but will often have Redline race oil levels (Near 1000 ppm) of Moly, with normal detergent levels. They are not designed for long term use due to potential corrosion or spark plug fouling issues.
The general trend with OEM's is to avoid the use of factory fills and change over to using special assembly lubes and a standard approved full synthetic insted of a factory fill.

Some folks that do engine rebuilds use a Zinc additive for running in, rather than a high Moly oil. If the engine is one that has high cam lobe forces (Older flat tappet designs) Zinc is better than Moly, but for more modern engines it is better to have a high Moly oil.
Oddly enough although race oils contain high levels of Moly, some good OEM 0w20 grades also have similar levels. Those oils are often OEM spec in the US for engines that were design spec for 30 grades. The Moly is important when the oil film breaks down.

 

[Piston_slap]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Shell Helix Ultra is also the factory fill for all new Ferraris ( i think )

Does the Shell Helix add any noise to the engine?
You can perform this simple test with a taut string threaded through your mastoid bone an one end and rigidly affixed to the valve cover on the other. A practical comparison will decide the winner.
From this my preferred oil is "Quaker Maid Piston-ease Deluxe" API SB

 

[artificialist]

I find it interesting that German car companies have been turning to Shell to supply engine oil, but they often use Pentosin for power steering fluid and transmission fluid.

I didn't even know Pentosin made engine oil until I saw it at NAPA. I thought Pentosin was a company that only produced special fluids.

 

[crazyoildude]

What oil company makes the best deal pretty much is the one they use.. Just like everything else.. Those engines are pretty much the same as others made of the same material and pretty much any good synthetic oil will work well. If you believe those engines are so fragile that a certain brand of oil is all you can run you have to start rethinking things.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
What oil company makes the best deal pretty much is the one they use.. Just like everything else.. Those engines are pretty much the same as others made of the same material and pretty much any good synthetic oil will work well. If you believe those engines are so fragile that a certain brand of oil is all you can run you have to start rethinking things.

What is that?
I am not sure how "pretty much any good synthetic oil" will do in MB 250 CDI or E63 AMG.
A lot of owners of VW 1.8T engines would disagree with you. VW told them same thing, just use good synthetic oil and some of most famous sludge bombs came out of that.

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I suspect Shell is in the process of trying to bag as much OEM FF business as possible simply because it believes it befits its status as the world's biggest lubricant blender.

I never quite understood why oil companies bend over backwards and lavish inordinate amounts of cash to secure FF business. It might impress Formula 1 followers but it means nothing to the average bloke in the street.


I can assure you that Shell does not lose money on FF or OEM oil contracts. Castrol and Mobil do make some lose leader deals, but the reason Shell won the last set of deals with German car makers was that their Ulta is GTL based and is simply a better oil than the older M1 was. Fuchs are the world leaders in FF oils and also do not sign loss making deals (Fuchs are the major stock holder in Liqui Moly, so LM don't chase OEM oil contracts that they bid for).

Merc, Porsche and BMW test a number of different oils in the lab using the latest radiometric particle analysis, which is done in real time to avoid the need to shut the engine down when changing the oil mix. They nearly always select their OEM and FF oils based on those test results.



Surely 'Shell not losing money on FF/OEM business' depends on how you view the economics of the Pearl GTL plant and what the 'true price' of GTL base oil is? I'm not going to dispute that GTL base stocks can be technically better than PAOs but should they actually exist at all? All reports I've read suggest the Ras Laffan plant cost $US 18 BILLION to build but it's probably higher because it always is. I'm going to hazard a guess that only about 10% of the plant's output is high value GTL base stock with the other 90% being low value commodity fuels. At an oil price of $US 50/bbl one might justifiably ask when the plant might pay back the massive amount of cash that was sunk into it. I suspect on a DCF basis, the answer will be never.