True Diesel Oil in Petrol Applications

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Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
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Originally Posted By: dexos
Diesel oils have a better additive pack, but there's no problem to use them in petrol engines.
Actually even oils with commercial designation 'Diesel' or 'Turbo Diesel' are suitable for boths applications (petrol/diesel).


They don't have a better add pack and it's a daft idea to use them in a petrol engine as they might have incompatible seal conditioners.

Most diesel only (Acea B4) oils have slightly higher levels of Calcium detergents (Ca is better than Mg or Na based detergents in a diesel) and some have high levels of Zinc that might be an issue for a petrol engine CAT.

Some B4 oils like Shell Ultra 5w40 do have a slightly different viscosity to their equivalent petrol equivalents, although that often relates to approvals or recommendations the oil has.

I give you an example: CASTROL Edge Titanium FST TD 5W-40
1416306622120.jpg

Specs:
ACEA A3 (petrol) B4(diesel) C3(diesel DPF)
API SN/CF
VW 502 00 (petrol)/ 505 00/ 505 01 (diesel)
BMW Longlife-04 (EU petrol and diesel DPF)
MB-Approval 229.31/ 229.51/ 226.5 (petrol/diesel DPF)
Meets Ford WSS-M2C917-A (diesel)
Renault RN0700/0710 (petrol/diesel)
Meets Fiat 9.55535-S2 (petrol)
dexos2* (petrol/diesel DPF)

'Non-Turbo Diesel' and 'Turbo Diesel' are only commercial designations - same product inside.
No CAT compatibility issues (mid saps).
 
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
The only true "Diesel Engine Only" oils that I know of are like Exxon/Mobil MarineGuard. They are designed for ships engines or staionary power plants. They have no place in a gasoline engine. TBN's in the 15 range, etc.

The OP said diesel engine oil, so I take it to mean these sorts of lubricants...

For dual rated oils like Rotella T6, it's a non-issue
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FWIW, I've been using Mobil delvac elite 10W30 for a while now (in heavy duty diesels). It is not dual rated. It's CJ-4, E7, E9 and has multiple engine builder's approvals but not rated for spark ignition engines. The Delvac elite 15W40 is rated SM besides the CJ-4 and E7 (not E9).

Not sure of the significance (if any) of this info. Just putting it out there.
 
Originally Posted By: dexos
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
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Originally Posted By: dexos
Diesel oils have a better additive pack, but there's no problem to use them in petrol engines.
Actually even oils with commercial designation 'Diesel' or 'Turbo Diesel' are suitable for boths applications (petrol/diesel).


They don't have a better add pack and it's a daft idea to use them in a petrol engine as they might have incompatible seal conditioners.

Most diesel only (Acea B4) oils have slightly higher levels of Calcium detergents (Ca is better than Mg or Na based detergents in a diesel) and some have high levels of Zinc that might be an issue for a petrol engine CAT.

Some B4 oils like Shell Ultra 5w40 do have a slightly different viscosity to their equivalent petrol equivalents, although that often relates to approvals or recommendations the oil has.

I give you an example: CASTROL Edge Titanium FST TD 5W-40
1416306622120.jpg

Specs:
ACEA A3 (petrol) B4(diesel) C3(diesel DPF)
API SN/CF
VW 502 00 (petrol)/ 505 00/ 505 01 (diesel)
BMW Longlife-04 (EU petrol and diesel DPF)
MB-Approval 229.31/ 229.51/ 226.5 (petrol/diesel DPF)
Meets Ford WSS-M2C917-A (diesel)
Renault RN0700/0710 (petrol/diesel)
Meets Fiat 9.55535-S2 (petrol)
dexos2* (petrol/diesel DPF)

'Non-Turbo Diesel' and 'Turbo Diesel' are only commercial designations - same product inside.
No CAT compatibility issues (mid saps).

No oil can meet both C3 and A3/B4 at the same time.
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri

No oil can meet both C3 and A3/B4 at the same time.

One example: Castrol Magnatec 5w-30 (EU)
oleo-castrol-magnatec-5w30-c3-4-litros-1256902z2-121950165.jpg

Castrol Edge 0w-30 (EU)
attachment.php
 
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There are a couple issues, and it depends what one means by a true diesel oil. Shannow and others have already addressed the concerns of a very high TBN, high SA, high phosphorus selection. I'd be cautious with such a lubricant, too, unless it were a really old gasser, and even then there are better options.

Does a B3 or B4 only lubricant actually exist? That would be a diesel only oil, but is that within ACEA rules? If an oil isn't labelled properly, should it be used?
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If it were CJ-4 with no gas spec, it depends. If it were Motorcraft's 10w-30 CJ-4 HDEO, which lacks the SM or SN, I'd likely still use it, if it were a gasser in which I'd be utilizing an HDEO anyhow. Dustyroads noted above a similar situation with Mobil. The same would apply if it were Castrol Canada's 5w-30 HDEO CJ-4 E6, E7, E9, with the same builder approvals as Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 CJ-4/SN E6, E7, E9. I can't see the Castrol version being totally unacceptable in a gasser while the Delvac 1 with the same builder approvals is fine.

Now, if it were a two stroke diesel oil, I'd definitely stay away from using it in a gasser.
 
Originally Posted By: dexos
Originally Posted By: chrisri

No oil can meet both C3 and A3/B4 at the same time.

One example: Castrol Magnatec 5w-30 (EU)
oleo-castrol-magnatec-5w30-c3-4-litros-1256902z2-121950165.jpg

Castrol Edge 0w-30 (EU)
attachment.php


That's the old version. With ACEA-12 sequence minimum TBN was raised from 8 to 10. So yes, in the past you could market oils both A3/B4 and C3.
Today, oils that follow ACEA to the letter, and that means following latest sequence cannot meet both requirements. Max ash level for C3 limits that.
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri

That's the old version. With ACEA-12 sequence minimum TBN was raised from 8 to 10. So yes, in the past you could market oils both A3/B4 and C3.
Today, oils that follow ACEA to the letter, and that means following latest sequence cannot meet both requirements. Max ash level for C3 limits that.


Yes I agree, my reading of the latest ACEA sequences does not allow for an oil that is both C3 and A3/B4.

Also ACEA requires that claims should only be made against the latest sequences. Plus the A (petrol) and B (diesel) categories have been combined since 2004 and must be claimed together. So anything that shows B3 only is more than 10 years old, or breaking the rules.

https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/2012_ACEA_Oil_Sequences.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: SR5

Yes I agree, my reading of the latest ACEA sequences does not allow for an oil that is both C3 and A3/B4.

Also ACEA requires that claims should only be made against the latest sequences. Plus the A (petrol) and B (diesel) categories have been combined since 2004 and must be claimed together. So anything that shows B3 only is more than 10 years old, or breaking the rules.

https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/2012_ACEA_Oil_Sequences.pdf

If you take for example the parameter '1.8 * Sulphated ash', I agree that A3/B4 can't respect C3 tolerances.
But is easy to undersand that a C3 oil can be used in an A3/B4 oil application - almost parameters are equal or less demanding in A3/B4.

 
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Yes definitely, C3 is just a mid-SAPS version of a high-SAPS A3/B4. So in a low sulphur fuel area they are almost interchangeable. But in a high sulphur fuel area I would prefer the extra TBN of an A3/B4 oil.

An A3/B4 oil should have a TBN of 10 or more, I have never seen a C3 oil with a TBN this high. Most C3 oils I have seen, the TBN is 8 or less.

Valvoline Australia claim a few A3/B4/C3 oils, which I disagree with as a label. I politely rang them up to seek an explanation of how they could claim these two specs simultaneously and what exact TBN and SAPS level met both requirements. They gave me no numbers, but called me a trouble maker, at least they got one thing right.
 
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