Just happened to see a YouTube video on how to clean the carbon off valves in a GDI engine. Procedure seemed very involved as you put in 2 different cleaners, use a brush, take out the spark plugs, and let the first one soak for 30 minutes and then vacuum the stuff out (twice). Must cost a couple of hundred dollars in labor for all that. My question is does our 2014 Kia Forte with the 2.0 GDI engine need that? It runs fine at 38k and is doing 39 mpg on the highway and doesn't seem excessively noisy. So far it has had one fuel system treatment when I let the dealer do the 15k maintenance and they did use some type of fuel system cleaner although I'm not clear exactly what it was. I'm sure it wasn't what I saw on the video because they didn't charge that much for it. When our car came to the 30k maintenance, I took it to an independent shop and they didn't do any fuel system treatment it because it would have been an additional amount of money (at least $50) and I didn't want to pay the extra money. Question is should I have? Do these engines need to have the carbon cleaned off the valves at any particular interval? All responses will be welcome. If they do need carbon cleaning, what products are the best? That BG one seems awfully complicated.
do Kia GDI engines need valve carbon cleaning?
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Two answers: Yes and No.
Yes as in every internal combustion engine can use the cleanest intake pathway, and due to pollution regulations, oil vapours from the crankcase are returned to the intake, where it's supposed to burn in the normal engine combustion phase. So, every motor has oil contamination in the intake, the valves, the combustion space.
No, because every motor deals with this the same way, and quality gasoline has additives that clean the intake area. If you use off-brand gas, which might not have such cleaners present (it's how they shave a few cents per gallon from the price), you might find your intake is dirtier than necessary. If you buy Top Tier gasoline, you probably are good to go, no special cleaning necessary.
I would not pay $50 to anyone to pour a bottle of kerosene or alcohol down the intake. Which pretty much summarizes what this "service" amounts to. If you absolutely insist on using a product to keep your engine clean, I'd buy a bottle of Techron and add it myself.
Yes as in every internal combustion engine can use the cleanest intake pathway, and due to pollution regulations, oil vapours from the crankcase are returned to the intake, where it's supposed to burn in the normal engine combustion phase. So, every motor has oil contamination in the intake, the valves, the combustion space.
No, because every motor deals with this the same way, and quality gasoline has additives that clean the intake area. If you use off-brand gas, which might not have such cleaners present (it's how they shave a few cents per gallon from the price), you might find your intake is dirtier than necessary. If you buy Top Tier gasoline, you probably are good to go, no special cleaning necessary.
I would not pay $50 to anyone to pour a bottle of kerosene or alcohol down the intake. Which pretty much summarizes what this "service" amounts to. If you absolutely insist on using a product to keep your engine clean, I'd buy a bottle of Techron and add it myself.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Two answers: Yes and No.
Yes as in every internal combustion engine can use the cleanest intake pathway, and due to pollution regulations, oil vapours from the crankcase are returned to the intake, where it's supposed to burn in the normal engine combustion phase. So, every motor has oil contamination in the intake, the valves, the combustion space.
No, because every motor deals with this the same way, and quality gasoline has additives that clean the intake area. If you use off-brand gas, which might not have such cleaners present (it's how they shave a few cents per gallon from the price), you might find your intake is dirtier than necessary. If you buy Top Tier gasoline, you probably are good to go, no special cleaning necessary.
The problem with GDI is that the fuel does not wash the intake valves, so they never see the detergents from your Top Tier gas, Techron, or whatever.
Seems like walnut shell blasting on a disassembled engine is a very popular way to deal with this...I tried using CRC GDI Intake Valve Cleaner sprayed past the MAF sensor and will probably not do it again. Nothing wrong with the product, the physical configuration of my car caused problems.
Two answers: Yes and No.
Yes as in every internal combustion engine can use the cleanest intake pathway, and due to pollution regulations, oil vapours from the crankcase are returned to the intake, where it's supposed to burn in the normal engine combustion phase. So, every motor has oil contamination in the intake, the valves, the combustion space.
No, because every motor deals with this the same way, and quality gasoline has additives that clean the intake area. If you use off-brand gas, which might not have such cleaners present (it's how they shave a few cents per gallon from the price), you might find your intake is dirtier than necessary. If you buy Top Tier gasoline, you probably are good to go, no special cleaning necessary.
The problem with GDI is that the fuel does not wash the intake valves, so they never see the detergents from your Top Tier gas, Techron, or whatever.
Seems like walnut shell blasting on a disassembled engine is a very popular way to deal with this...I tried using CRC GDI Intake Valve Cleaner sprayed past the MAF sensor and will probably not do it again. Nothing wrong with the product, the physical configuration of my car caused problems.
Intake valve deposits will depend on how well your PCV system keeps oil out of the intake. By 100,000 miles you'll need the backs of the valves cleaned as most GDI engines will. Low tension piston rings are used to increase MPG, but the engines burn more oil & cause oil vapor to get pulled through the PCV system. Sodium filled intake valves help reduce buildup, I'm not sure if your engine has them
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Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
The problem with GDI is that the fuel does not wash the intake valves, so they never see the detergents from your Top Tier gas, Techron, or whatever.
Seems like walnut shell blasting on a disassembled engine is a very popular way to deal with this...I tried using CRC GDI Intake Valve Cleaner sprayed past the MAF sensor and will probably not do it again. Nothing wrong with the product, the physical configuration of my car caused problems.
Having owned a number of vehicles over the last 35 years, and rebuilt a few motors in the process, I would not worry one second about a little carbon buildup in any motor on a daily driver, and especially on the back of valves, where it has no effect whatsoever on combustion efficiency. Top Tier gas will clean the chamber. And even then, carbon buildup in the chamber mostly results in a slightly higher compression ratio, which in my books is not a problem.
You are free to do as you feel fit. In my world the money is better spent on quality oil, better tires, changing the shocks and/or struts in a timely manner, and other areas that affect performance to a larger degree. But that's just me, I guess.
The problem with GDI is that the fuel does not wash the intake valves, so they never see the detergents from your Top Tier gas, Techron, or whatever.
Seems like walnut shell blasting on a disassembled engine is a very popular way to deal with this...I tried using CRC GDI Intake Valve Cleaner sprayed past the MAF sensor and will probably not do it again. Nothing wrong with the product, the physical configuration of my car caused problems.
Having owned a number of vehicles over the last 35 years, and rebuilt a few motors in the process, I would not worry one second about a little carbon buildup in any motor on a daily driver, and especially on the back of valves, where it has no effect whatsoever on combustion efficiency. Top Tier gas will clean the chamber. And even then, carbon buildup in the chamber mostly results in a slightly higher compression ratio, which in my books is not a problem.
You are free to do as you feel fit. In my world the money is better spent on quality oil, better tires, changing the shocks and/or struts in a timely manner, and other areas that affect performance to a larger degree. But that's just me, I guess.
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If there are no symptoms (rough idle, power loss, check engine light, etc.) don't waste money on intake cleaning service.
However, I would clean the MAF sensor and throttle body on any modern engine every 100k miles or so.
However, I would clean the MAF sensor and throttle body on any modern engine every 100k miles or so.
Originally Posted By: BigBuck
Kia says run a fuel system cleaner through it at each oil change. Listen to the manufacturer.
That won't help the valves, but a PEA cleaner will help with any deposits in the head's combustion chamber or on the piston. Might help prevent any pinging that can result from carbon deposits.
Kia says run a fuel system cleaner through it at each oil change. Listen to the manufacturer.
That won't help the valves, but a PEA cleaner will help with any deposits in the head's combustion chamber or on the piston. Might help prevent any pinging that can result from carbon deposits.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
The problem with GDI is that the fuel does not wash the intake valves, so they never see the detergents from your Top Tier gas, Techron, or whatever.
Seems like walnut shell blasting on a disassembled engine is a very popular way to deal with this...I tried using CRC GDI Intake Valve Cleaner sprayed past the MAF sensor and will probably not do it again. Nothing wrong with the product, the physical configuration of my car caused problems.
Having owned a number of vehicles over the last 35 years, and rebuilt a few motors in the process, I would not worry one second about a little carbon buildup in any motor on a daily driver, and especially on the back of valves, where it has no effect whatsoever on combustion efficiency. Top Tier gas will clean the chamber. And even then, carbon buildup in the chamber mostly results in a slightly higher compression ratio, which in my books is not a problem.
You are free to do as you feel fit. In my world the money is better spent on quality oil, better tires, changing the shocks and/or struts in a timely manner, and other areas that affect performance to a larger degree. But that's just me, I guess.
How many vehicles in the past 35 years were GDI?
I can't speak for Kias but on VW GDI engines, the carbon most certainly does cause performance issues as well as misfires when the carbon gets out of control. When it gets that bad, the carbon restricts the flow of air into the engine and even gunk up the manifold.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
The problem with GDI is that the fuel does not wash the intake valves, so they never see the detergents from your Top Tier gas, Techron, or whatever.
Seems like walnut shell blasting on a disassembled engine is a very popular way to deal with this...I tried using CRC GDI Intake Valve Cleaner sprayed past the MAF sensor and will probably not do it again. Nothing wrong with the product, the physical configuration of my car caused problems.
Having owned a number of vehicles over the last 35 years, and rebuilt a few motors in the process, I would not worry one second about a little carbon buildup in any motor on a daily driver, and especially on the back of valves, where it has no effect whatsoever on combustion efficiency. Top Tier gas will clean the chamber. And even then, carbon buildup in the chamber mostly results in a slightly higher compression ratio, which in my books is not a problem.
You are free to do as you feel fit. In my world the money is better spent on quality oil, better tires, changing the shocks and/or struts in a timely manner, and other areas that affect performance to a larger degree. But that's just me, I guess.
How many vehicles in the past 35 years were GDI?
I can't speak for Kias but on VW GDI engines, the carbon most certainly does cause performance issues as well as misfires when the carbon gets out of control. When it gets that bad, the carbon restricts the flow of air into the engine and even gunk up the manifold.
Besides raising compression, carbon in the combustion chamber can cause hot spots that lead to spark knock and pre-ignition.
My Sonata has a GDI engine with 115,000 miles. Its never had any intake or fuel system cleaning services or wallet cleaning services as I call them. I dont have any driveability issues and it still gets advertised MPG.
I dont buy into these 15k, 30k, 45k etc. mileage services. These are usually nothing more than expensive oil changes.
I dont buy into these 15k, 30k, 45k etc. mileage services. These are usually nothing more than expensive oil changes.
What year is your Sonata and are your miles mostly H'Way or not ?
Originally Posted By: maximus
My Sonata has a GDI engine with 115,000 miles. Its never had any intake or fuel system cleaning services or wallet cleaning services as I call them. I dont have any driveability issues and it still gets advertised MPG.
I dont buy into these 15k, 30k, 45k etc. mileage services. These are usually nothing more than expensive oil changes.
Originally Posted By: maximus
My Sonata has a GDI engine with 115,000 miles. Its never had any intake or fuel system cleaning services or wallet cleaning services as I call them. I dont have any driveability issues and it still gets advertised MPG.
I dont buy into these 15k, 30k, 45k etc. mileage services. These are usually nothing more than expensive oil changes.
Originally Posted By: BigBuck
Kia says run a fuel system cleaner through it at each oil change. Listen to the manufacturer.
Not that this is a bad idea, but I think Hyundai/Kia's fuel system cleaner recommendation applies only if "top tier" fuel isn't used or isn't available.
Kia says run a fuel system cleaner through it at each oil change. Listen to the manufacturer.
Not that this is a bad idea, but I think Hyundai/Kia's fuel system cleaner recommendation applies only if "top tier" fuel isn't used or isn't available.
2010 Hyundai 2.4L I had the intake / fuel system cleaning services done, and new plugs. Done at 105k on the clock. I did not notice any difference.
I have always ran Chevron gas except couple times I filled up on Shell. So then I know at the time it made no difference I guess except a little lighter wallet.
I have only ran a few bottles of Techron cleaner before but haven't used any in awhile. Couldn't tell a difference the few times I tried it in the Hyundai. 115k now, seems to run the same as they day I bought it. Only mpg changes were from changing tires. Currently running DT's Continental ControlContact Tour AS tires since 98k
I have always ran Chevron gas except couple times I filled up on Shell. So then I know at the time it made no difference I guess except a little lighter wallet.
I have only ran a few bottles of Techron cleaner before but haven't used any in awhile. Couldn't tell a difference the few times I tried it in the Hyundai. 115k now, seems to run the same as they day I bought it. Only mpg changes were from changing tires. Currently running DT's Continental ControlContact Tour AS tires since 98k
Originally Posted By: Errtt
2010 Hyundai 2.4L I had the intake / fuel system cleaning services done, and new plugs. Done at 105k on the clock.
2010 isnt GDI.
Are these cleaning services even called for in the OM? I'd look, but ,but mine was stolen when my car was broken into. True story.
2010 Hyundai 2.4L I had the intake / fuel system cleaning services done, and new plugs. Done at 105k on the clock.
2010 isnt GDI.
Are these cleaning services even called for in the OM? I'd look, but ,but mine was stolen when my car was broken into. True story.
Thanks to everyone for all their input. Really appreciate it.
Originally Posted By: maximus
Originally Posted By: Errtt
2010 Hyundai 2.4L I had the intake / fuel system cleaning services done, and new plugs. Done at 105k on the clock.
2010 isnt GDI.
Are these cleaning services even called for in the OM? I'd look, but ,but mine was stolen when my car was broken into. True story.
MPI
I dunno... now it's strange I can't fine my OM.
I only had the cleaning services because I had the vehicle in for plugs due @ 105k, and figured it's been issue free why not have the coolant change (was due @ 120k I think), then I said why not have the fuel cleaning services done.
I was unable to do much myself as I was recovering from surgery - missed work for some time (not my idea of vacation), bored, but wanted to get some Hyundai things taken care of, and was curious if the plugs and fuel system services would help... again, I couldn't tell any difference on how it runs, so now I know. I don't recall the OM plan for it. I don't regularly add anything to the fuel, I think I've added a bottle of Techron twice.
Vehicle always gets Chevron except I think twice it's had Shell.
Now I want to know where my OM is too...
Originally Posted By: Errtt
2010 Hyundai 2.4L I had the intake / fuel system cleaning services done, and new plugs. Done at 105k on the clock.
2010 isnt GDI.
Are these cleaning services even called for in the OM? I'd look, but ,but mine was stolen when my car was broken into. True story.
MPI
I dunno... now it's strange I can't fine my OM.
I only had the cleaning services because I had the vehicle in for plugs due @ 105k, and figured it's been issue free why not have the coolant change (was due @ 120k I think), then I said why not have the fuel cleaning services done.
I was unable to do much myself as I was recovering from surgery - missed work for some time (not my idea of vacation), bored, but wanted to get some Hyundai things taken care of, and was curious if the plugs and fuel system services would help... again, I couldn't tell any difference on how it runs, so now I know. I don't recall the OM plan for it. I don't regularly add anything to the fuel, I think I've added a bottle of Techron twice.
Vehicle always gets Chevron except I think twice it's had Shell.
Now I want to know where my OM is too...
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