Infiniti Q50 Red Sport 400 3.0tt - Recommend oil

[Sayjac]

Here is the OM recommendation for the topic vehicle.

· Genuine NISSAN motor oil or equivalent
· Engine oil with API Certification Mark*2, SAE Viscosity 0W-20 *3
*2: For additional information, refer to “Engine oil and oil filter recommendation” (P.10-6) of this manual.
*3: As an alternative to this recommended oil, SAE 5W-30 conventional petroleum oils may be used and meet all specifications and requirements necessary to maintain the INFINITI new vehicle limited warranty.

So again, 0w20 is recommended. However, 5w30 conventional may be used as an alternative.

Welcome to the weird world of Ghosn Nissan/Infiniti. At least it doesn't list 'Genuine' Nissan Ester oil as a choice.

I would think M1 0w30 synthetic would be a good alternative choice for the turbo engine, in lieu of 0w20.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Since when oil is for cooling?


Isn't that pretty much one of the functions of passenger car oil in general?

My understanding is that at one time oil contacted the turbo directly while spooling and one had to wait as it spooled down before shutting off the car to insure even heat distribution. But I am not an engineer and do not pretend to be one. I know Ford has made it clear that you do not need to use synthetic oil in their turbos on the modern SHO's...

Ford, a great name in building turbos, only 15 years behind those outdated turbos I have.


I sincerely doubt that, but okay whatever...I've never thought that highly of VW's consistency of quality either. I'm pretty sure 15 years ago, VW unleased the 1.8L Turbo from the deepest plain of [censored]...

Hardly state of the art. But I really cannot connect a Ford turbo somehow being less advanced when it seems that a typically syn-blend oil seems to allow them to go hundreds of thousands of miles without failures being a norm or known issue..

I did recently meet an owner of a 15' GTi whose engine grenaded at the mall in a bar as he was waiting to be picked up. I think he said that the timing chain was a known "issue"...

Quote:
Interestingly, while FORD claims you do not have to use synthetic in turbos in the U.S., in Europe they strictly recommend 5W30 or even 5W40 full synthetic, and ONLY synthetic oil.


I don't know what we're talking about as far as Europe and which cars since they have different models - although perhaps to a lessor extent than they used too. In any case, that also tells us nothing since synthetic is pretty much the standard in Europe with some limited exceptions and is probably much more readily available. They also use different suppliers (Castrol) in Europe and perhaps have higher horsepower specs, at least in the UK, for cars like the Focus ST. Again, not really very meaningful for conclusions...

Incidentally, Ford does recommend full syn Motorcraft for applications here as well.

Of course, looking back at 1996 when VW introduced 1.8T engine, it was state of the art. I see those engines today with 400K and see them failed with 50K, due to inclination of average American driver to go to 10 minute oil change.
As for Ford, you have to take into consideration that Ecoboost technology is coming from Europe, from Cologne and Ford European division. Ford had to be present with turbos in EU much earlier then in the U.S. Granted, due to strict speed limits in the U.S. cars/trucks are not as exposed to high speeds of EU HWY's where you have Ford Mondeo (which is Fusion for the U.S. market, just bit downgraded) being capable of speeds 155mph (in certain versions> Ford Focus ST is 100% European FORD division development.
So, what Ford does is same that VW did in 1998 when they brought 1.8T engine to the U.S. Play into hands of people who just do not like to think what they drive, what is under the hood etc. Make life as easy as possible. Ecoboosts are having dilution and CBU issues, and Ford updated oil choices alsready from 5W20 to 5W30 for Ecboost in order to address thee issues.
Going to OP.
If you drive that Infiniti hard, stick to ACEA A3/B3 B4 oils, because that engine is specd. for those oils.
If you just like to coast around, just up it to ILSAC-GF5 full syn. 5W30 or 0W30.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah I agree, I am just referring to what factory is recommending.

If it were me (and it's not for any lack of trying by the local Infiniti dealer), it would very likely be the Delvac 1 LE 5w-30, assuming the manual wording still allows that bit of wiggle room. Heck, it winds up being even cheaper than most 0w-20 options in the first place.

Sayjac: Be glad they at least give an option.

I only hope it doesn't bite them in the hindquarters. It looks to me that it has a real OLM now, rather than a 3750 mile severe service OCI. So, if the OLM is calibrated for a 0w-20 synthetic and someone is using a basic 5w-30, well, I hope the OLM is conservative.

 

[SEBZX79]

I think that is a 3.0 liter turbo from a MB line of engines if I am not mistaken. If so MB uses Ow40 with 10k mile changes.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: Garak
..Sayjac: Be glad they at least give an option...

As I don't own one nor ever plan to again, really irrelevant to me. But the 5w30 'conventional' only alternative recommendation specifically noted to the 0w20 spec seems absurd imo. But not unsurprising 'to me' coming from Nissan.

 

[schmeckp]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
PPPP 0w20 or M1 0w20 should do the trick along with a Fram Ultra oil filter. The Ultra is capable of 15K OCI so you could safely leave it on for 2 5K OCI and still have wiggle room. Does the owners manual have any oil specs? Or just 0w20?


Specs from the manual:
· Genuine NISSAN motor oil or equivalent
· Engine oil with API Certification Mark*2, SAE Viscosity 0W-20*3
*2: For additional information, refer to “Engine oil and oil filter
recommendation” (P.10-6) of this manual.
*3: As an alternative to this recommended oil, SAE 5W-30 conventional
petroleum oils may be used and meet all specifications and requirements
necessary to maintain the INFINITI new vehicle limited warranty.

From 10-6:
VR30DDTT engine model
Selecting the correct oil:
It is essential to choose the correct grade,
quality, and viscosity engine oil to ensure
satisfactory engine life and performance,
see “Capacities and recommended fluids/
lubricants” (P.10-2). INFINITI recommends
the use of an energy conserving oil in order
to improve fuel economy.
Select only engine oils that meet the
American Petroleum Institute (API) certification
or International Lubricant Standardization
and Approval Committee (ILSAC)
certification and SAE viscosity standard.
These oils have the API certification mark
on the front of the container. Oils which do
not have the specified quality label should
not be used as they could cause engine
damage.
Oil additives:
INFINITI does not recommend the use of oil
additives. The use of an oil additive is not
necessary when the proper oil type is used
and maintenance intervals are followed.
Oil which may contain foreign matter or
has been previously used should not be
used.

 

[schmeckp]

Originally Posted By: SEBZX79
I think that is a 3.0 liter turbo from a MB line of engines if I am not mistaken. If so MB uses Ow40 with 10k mile changes.


The 2.0L turbo is from the MB line. The 3.0 is not, as I understand it. The specs for oil on the 2.0L are significantly more defined:

· Engine oil meeting specification MB229.5, viscosity SAE 0W-30 or
equivalent.
· As an alternative to this recommended oil, engine oils meeting
specification MB229.5, viscosity SAE 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40 may be
used and meet all specifications and requirements necessary to maintain
the new vehicle limited warranty.
· For additional information, refer to “Selecting the correct oil” (P.10-7) and
“Oil viscosity” (P.10-7) under “Engine oil and oil filter recommendation”
(P.10-6) of this manual.

 

[wemay]

Some of you will continue to be frustrated as more and more car manufacturers recommend lower viscosities, and in some cases, synthetic blends and conventional motor oils for their turbo applications, including BMW, Ford, Infiniti etc. The US will continue moving in that direction no matter what is done overseas or discussed on a forum. The absence of any correlation between these recommendations and widespread engine failures or issues is testament to that. Let's see how this plays out. If there's a change, we'll be sure to hear it.

 

[schmeckp]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac
Looking at your owner manual online, 0w20 is the recommended in the spec. Using that recommendation M1 AFE 0w20 or PP 0w20 would be good choices imo.

As for filters, seems you're looking at high end. That being the case, Fram Ultra would be a better choice overall including price and specs than the M1 and K&N, especially than the latter. Infiniti doesn't recommend using a filter two ocis, so if your going to get ~10k miles between changes the Ultra is a good fit. Another option for 10k miles or less would be a Wix/Napa Gold, same filters and can generally be had for less than the Ultra.


I was leaning towards the K&N or M1 filters, as those appear to be a couple of the only options that have published the fitment for the 3.0 engine. Fram still doesn't have a filter listed in their fitment guides, although I suspect it will be the same as the 3.7 (XG7317), since the KN & M1 part numbers are the same between the two engines.

Thoughts on using the fram before the fitment is confirmed? Maybe I get an OEM filter for the first change and wait a bit on aftermarket to catch up.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Some of you will continue to be frustrated as more and more car manufacturers recommend lower viscosities, and in some cases, synthetic blends and conventional motor oils for their turbo applications, including BMW, Ford, Infiniti etc. The US will continue moving in that direction no matter what is done overseas or discussed on a forum. The absence of any correlation between these recommendations and widespread engine failures or issues is testament to that. Let's see how this plays out. If there's a change, we'll be sure to hear it.

BMW recommends conventional oil? Now that is statement worth of careful consideration.
As for "thinner" oils, BMW is moving to 0W20 in electric vehicles due to need for power when engine is cold. However, they spec. at the same time thicker viscosities are also recommended. Why? All these manufacturers that are know to 0W20 or 0W16 are certain that engines will run good during warranty period.
If, as you said, U.S. moves to conventional oils (I seriously do not understand what are you implying here), meaning the U.S. manufacturers, I see another bailout in sight.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: schmeckp
Originally Posted By: SEBZX79
I think that is a 3.0 liter turbo from a MB line of engines if I am not mistaken. If so MB uses Ow40 with 10k mile changes.


The 2.0L turbo is from the MB line. The 3.0 is not, as I understand it. The specs for oil on the 2.0L are significantly more defined:

· Engine oil meeting specification MB229.5, viscosity SAE 0W-30 or
equivalent.
· As an alternative to this recommended oil, engine oils meeting
specification MB229.5, viscosity SAE 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40 may be
used and meet all specifications and requirements necessary to maintain
the new vehicle limited warranty.
· For additional information, refer to “Selecting the correct oil” (P.10-7) and
“Oil viscosity” (P.10-7) under “Engine oil and oil filter recommendation”
(P.10-6) of this manual.

But, for Euro market Infiniti specs. for this engine MB 229.5 or equivalent, which means that OP can use heavy oil if he wants. Engine will be fine.
What Nissan is doing is using 0W20 oil to get better MPG knowing that demands of the U.S. roads will not cause any damage, at least during warranty period.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: schmeckp
.....I was leaning towards the K&N or M1 filters, as those appear to be a couple of the only options that have published the fitment for the 3.0 engine. Fram still doesn't have a filter listed in their fitment guides, although I suspect it will be the same as the 3.7 (XG7317), since the KN & M1 part numbers are the same between the two engines.

Thoughts on using the fram before the fitment is confirmed? Maybe I get an OEM filter for the first change and wait a bit on aftermarket to catch up.

Based on M1 look up, it doesn't appear the 3.0 specs the longer 7317 like your 3.7, 'if' that was the true spec size. Looks like the spec filter here is the shorty 6607/14612 size, the M1-108 equivalent. Though I'd bet dollars to donuts the longer 7317 app would fit just fine. Anyway, I'd still pass on the K&N, the M1 would be an acceptable/good choice and it is listed in their catalog for warranty. I suspect when the Fram catalog catches up the XG6607 will be spec. That would still be my first choice when that happens. But M1-108 a good choice for now if you're concerned about a catalog listing.

Nissan/Infiniti odd about specing the shorty 6607 where 7317 with same specs except longer and more media and will fit almost always.

 

[wemay]

edyvw, I suggest you read what I wrote again. I never said BMW recommends conventional so no consideration needed. Nor did I write that the "US is moving to conventional oils". Allow me to simplify... many manufacturers are recommending API/ILSAC, Ford, and Dexos specs. None of which require full synthetic on the label. My HyundaI manual only recommends API/ILSAC full stop.



Now, BMW only recommends 0w20 for their "electric vehicles?"

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-210892-bmw-0w20-engine-oil/
"BMW's newest TwinPower Turbo engine oil is LL14 FE+ certified. It meets BMW's standards for LongLife 2014 ("LL14") and improved fuel economy ("FE+"). In testing, BMW saw a 3% improvement in fuel economy over the LL01 5W30 in the N20 4-cylinder. The new 0W20 replaces the previous 5W30 oil used in some 4-cylinder and 6-cylinder BMW models and is the standard oil for the new B-series modular engines (B46, B48, B58). As of December 2015, BMW has not backdated the 0W20 for any other engines.

Beginning with July 2015 production, new models came with 0W20 or 0W30 BMW oil. However, BMW dealerships continued to sell 5W30 until that stock was depleted. The 5W30 is an acceptable alternative to the 0W20 and 0W30 BMW oil per BMW's service bulletin.

0W20 oil is to be released in 2016.

0W20 BMW oil is approved for the following BMWs:
N20 Engine:
2014+ F22 BMW 228i 228iX
2012+ F30 BMW 320i 320iX 328i 328iX - Sedan
2012+ F31 BMW 328i 328iX - Wagon
2014+ F34 BMW 328i 328iX - Gran Turismo
2014+ F32 BMW 428i 428iX - Coupe
2014+ F33 BMW 428i 428iX - Convertible
2014+ F36 BMW 428i 428iX - Gran Coupe
2012+ F10 BMW 528i
2013+ E84 BMW X1 28i
2011+ F25 BMW X3 xDrive28i
2014+ F26 BMW X4 xDrive 28i
2011+ Z4 BMW Z4 sDrive28i

B46/B48/B58 Modular Engines:
2016+ F30 LCI BMW 340i 340iX - Sedan
2016+ F48 BMW X1 xDrive20i X1 sDrive 25i X1 xDrive 25i
2015+ F55 MINI MINI Cooper 5-door, MINI Cooper S 5-door
2015+ F56 MINI MINI Cooper 3-door, MINI Cooper S 3-door
2016+ F54 MINI MINI Cooper Clubman, MINI Cooper S Clubman"

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: wemay
edyvw, I suggest you read what I wrote again. I never said BMW recommends conventional so no consideration needed. Nor did I write that the "US moving to conventional oils". Allow me to simplify... many manufacturers are recommending API/ILSAC, Ford, and Dexos specs. None of which require full synthetic on the label. My HyundaI manual only recommends API/ILSAC full stop.


Now, BMW only recommends 0w20 for their "electric vehicles?"

BMW's newest TwinPower Turbo engine oil is LL14 FE+ certified. It meets BMW's standards for LongLife 2014 ("LL14") and improved fuel economy ("FE+"). In testing, BMW saw a 3% improvement in fuel economy over the LL01 5W30 in the N20 4-cylinder. The new 0W20 replaces the previous 5W30 oil used in some 4-cylinder and 6-cylinder BMW models and is the standard oil for the new B-series modular engines (B46, B48, B58). As of December 2015, BMW has not backdated the 0W20 for any other engines.

Beginning with July 2015 production, new models came with 0W20 or 0W30 BMW oil. However, BMW dealerships continued to sell 5W30 until that stock was depleted. The 5W30 is an acceptable alternative to the 0W20 and 0W30 BMW oil per BMW's service bulletin.

0W20 oil is to be released in 2016.

0W20 BMW oil is approved for the following BMWs:
N20 Engine:
2014+ F22 BMW 228i 228iX
2012+ F30 BMW 320i 320iX 328i 328iX - Sedan
2012+ F31 BMW 328i 328iX - Wagon
2014+ F34 BMW 328i 328iX - Gran Turismo
2014+ F32 BMW 428i 428iX - Coupe
2014+ F33 BMW 428i 428iX - Convertible
2014+ F36 BMW 428i 428iX - Gran Coupe
2012+ F10 BMW 528i
2013+ E84 BMW X1 28i
2011+ F25 BMW X3 xDrive28i
2014+ F26 BMW X4 xDrive 28i
2011+ Z4 BMW Z4 sDrive28i

B46/B48/B58 Modular Engines:
2016+ F30 LCI BMW 340i 340iX - Sedan
2016+ F48 BMW X1 xDrive20i X1 sDrive 25i X1 xDrive 25i
2015+ F55 MINI MINI Cooper 5-door, MINI Cooper S 5-door
2015+ F56 MINI MINI Cooper 3-door, MINI Cooper S 3-door
2016+ F54 MINI MINI Cooper Clubman, MINI Cooper S Clubman

All those engines that you put that will move to 0W20 are specd. for LL-01 too.
In Europe LL-01 still is go to specification. Now, I was writing about this. Many issues that BMW's have in the U.S. are specific for exploitation of their cars here, that is unique to profile of buyers and roads. For example, in Europe, N63 engines did not have oil consumption issue like here, in such large numbers. Reason is longer distances as well as higher speeds that allow proper bed in process, and BMW addressed that particular problem in SIB to dealers to encourage owners to take cars for longer trips, especially while new. Here most BMW's are used as grocery getters, unfortunately. That, IMO moved BMW to 0W20 thinking it might solve short trip issues. However, even LL-14 is much more stringent then ILSAC GF-5.
Also, B46, B48, B58 are first and foremost specd. for LL-01, as in Europe that is still recommended weight.
I still stand at my take that hybrid version (as well as CAFE) are moving BMW toward this decision. Like you said, 3% gain; might have effect on fleet MPG that is required by EPA. Now, that does not mean that you as an owner should use it. At least I would never be comfortable using it in turbo application, especially BMW with such high compression. New B engines are closed deck compare to N55, which indicates that BMW is going with higher pressures (so it can build several model using one engine, including M2/3. Latest M3, BMW had issue in developing desirable power due to open deck architecture). So, if I were to own B58 (which is possibility in new X5 G05) I would never use 0W20, no way.
I read your comment that US is moving to conventional oils, that is how it sounded. Considering that manufacturers are going with thinner oils bcs. of EPA< I think synthetic oils will be more i demand.

 

[wemay]

I understand your points, and again, I wasn't trying to say the US is moving towards conventional, so I apologize for the confusion. But your making a distinction between US drivers vs Europeans is the point; there is a difference. This leads the mfcr to recommend based on many different variables. Yes CAFE and driving styles are two among them. But where we differ is I also believe 'wear' is considered in this decision. Time will tell.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: wemay
I understand your points, and again, I wasn't trying to say the US is moving towards conventional, so I apologize for the confusion. But your making a distinction between US drivers vs Europeans is the point; there is a difference. This leads the mfcr to recommend based on many different variables. Yes CAFE and driving styles are two among them. But where we differ is I also believe 'wear' is considered in this decision. Time will tell.

I think what BMW is trying to address is wear precisely. Short trips, lot of cold starts, they probably think that 0W20 will help to reduce wear, and we all know that most of the wear occurs during cold start. "Babying" cars also allows them to use this oil weight.
I had 40e as a loaner for two weeks (since BMW needs that much time to replaces EGR valve under warranty). 0W20 makes sense in that application because I leave house, oil temp. (has oil temp. gauge) non existent, and then uphill suddenly engine revs to 4K. I think 0W20 in that application makes sense.
Also, let's not forget that 99% of BMW drivers who buy new cars (generalization, but I think I am close) have no clue about oil temp. and effects on the engine. So "hit the pedal" while cold is OK to them. I think BMW is trying to address that since I am not sure they can "educate" average soccer mom or lawyer that leases car why "hitting pedal" while oil is cold is not good.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Also, let's not forget that 99% of BMW drivers who buy new cars (generalization, but I think I am close) have no clue about oil temp. and effects on the engine. So "hit the pedal" while cold is OK to them. I think BMW is trying to address that since I am not sure they can "educate" average soccer mom or lawyer that leases car why "hitting pedal" while oil is cold is not good.


100% agree

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Also, let's not forget that 99% of BMW drivers who buy new cars (generalization, but I think I am close) have no clue about oil temp. and effects on the engine. So "hit the pedal" while cold is OK to them. I think BMW is trying to address that since I am not sure they can "educate" average soccer mom or lawyer that leases car why "hitting pedal" while oil is cold is not good.


100% agree

So I think, all this applys to OP. His engine in Europe is specd. for XW40. Renault knows that most Europeans who buy twin turbo 3.0l car in EU will drive it like they stole it (otherwise, they would buy 1.6 turbo diesel).
Here habits are different, so they go with 0W20. Basically, it is up to owner what to use. Engine allows IMO various oils to be used.

 

[Camprunner]

If the car was mine I would run some 5w30 Castrol Magnatec with a factory filter or Fram Ultra for 5,000 miles then do a UOA after a few oil changes 15k and if it looks good I would stick with it.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Also, let's not forget that 99% of BMW drivers who buy new cars (generalization, but I think I am close) have no clue about oil temp. and effects on the engine. So "hit the pedal" while cold is OK to them. I think BMW is trying to address that since I am not sure they can "educate" average soccer mom or lawyer that leases car why "hitting pedal" while oil is cold is not good.


100% agree

So I think, all this applys to OP. His engine in Europe is specd. for XW40. Renault knows that most Europeans who buy twin turbo 3.0l car in EU will drive it like they stole it (otherwise, they would buy 1.6 turbo diesel).
Here habits are different, so they go with 0W20. Basically, it is up to owner what to use. Engine allows IMO various oils to be used.


I'd definitely go with a 40wt if I had that car.