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#4228932 - 10/19/16 07:51 AM Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2
jadnhm Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Moncton, NB, Canada
Castrol Edge 0W-40 (black bottle)
12000 kms / 7500 miles
~8 Months (Feb to September)
2008 Volvo XC70 3.2 B6324S
277000km/172000miles at time of sample

Typical family use - some ~4 hour highway trips, lots of in-town grocery-getting.

Fram oil filter but will be using OEM/Mann filters in future.

Old air filter (changed to OEM at time of oil change for future).

No engine work.

Located in Moncton NB Canada. We had an easy winter though - not very cold and hardly any snow at all. Still pretty often -20C in the winter and 30C+ in the summer (-4F to 90F)

Comments:
We'd hold off on stretching the oil change interval for now - there's a lot of iron in this oil. We
compared your data to averages we have for this type engine, which are shown on the far right at an oil use
of about 11,000 km, and steel wear (iron) is running about 4 times the normal rate. Steel is typically from
rotating shafts, cylinder liners, and valvetrain parts. Other metals were fine, so we're hesitant to call this a
problem now. The titanium is just additive in the Castrol, and the small amount of fuel is harmless. TBN was
fine, but drop back to 10,000 km and check back.



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#4229054 - 10/19/16 10:36 AM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: jadnhm]
UltrafanUK Offline


Registered: 04/18/16
Posts: 985
Loc: England
Looks like a fuel contamination issue!

Try using a can of a major brand fuel additive to clean the injection system to see if that helps.

Like the comments suggest I would cut the OCI, perhaps as far back as 7500 Km to see if the viscosity stays in limits.

Did you do a 30 minute plus run prior to taking the sample ?? If not that does tend to give a false fuel contamination and flashpoint figure.

If you are stuck with bad figures from fuel contamination, I would try a can of Liqui Moly Ceratec, as that should reduce the wear metals. It contains some Moly and a good slug of Boron Nitride (BN) in a hexagonal form.
Edge 0w40 does not contain Moly or Boron, so has a rather weak add pack as regards anti wear additives, so Ceratec should work well.

High Iron without high Lead or Alum figures is rather odd in a UOA and although it is rare, it could be caused by a worn oil pump or corrosion. If it's the latter, the next UOA will be back to normal next OCI.

I'm in the one third of VOA TBN camp, so the TBN figure is also at the lower limit, although without a TAN it's difficult to know if it's an issue.


Edited by UltrafanUK (10/19/16 10:50 AM)
_________________________
Shell Ultra 0 or 5w40 or Liqui Moly 5w40 plus Ceratec every long OCI.
LM idle flush every 100K km.

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#4229084 - 10/19/16 11:24 AM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: jadnhm]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 9560
Loc: Boston, MA
I suspect there's something going on here a can of magic juice isn't going to fix. That Castrol shouldn't need "help".


Edited by HerrStig (10/19/16 11:25 AM)

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#4229144 - 10/19/16 12:58 PM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: jadnhm]
Popsy Offline


Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 896
Loc: Frogland / Brittany
What does the manual recommend?
What oil are you currently using?

-20 to +30 is within the limits of a 5W, but considering the numerous cold start, maybe you could give redline 0W40 a try?
_________________________
96 Barchetta, Motul 300V 5W40 | 98 Barchetta, Quartz 9000 energy 5W40
05 Forfour 95, SHU 0W40 (gf's car) | 10 Colt Ralliart, 300V 0W40

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#4229808 - 10/20/16 11:34 AM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: Popsy]
jadnhm Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Moncton, NB, Canada
This sample was 0W-40 Castrol Edge with Titanium (black bottle)

The current oil fill is mostly the same stuff, but I had a bit of leftover Castrol Edge (black bottle) 5W-40 and Castrol GTX 5W-30 HM that went in also (~1 litre each, ~8 litre fill) just to use it up.

I have actually considered switching to a 5W-30 (Castrol Edge gold bottle?) but it can actually get down to ~-35C here on occasion...

The OCI from the manual is 12k kms.


User Manual Here: http://new.volvocars.com/ownersdocs/2008/2008_XC70/08xc70_06b.htm#pg272

Maintenance Schedule here: http://new.volvocars.com/ownersdocs/2008/2008_maintenance/2008_maintenance.html

This is what the manual says about oil:

Engine oil must meet the minimum ILSAC specification GF-3, API SL, or ACEA A1/B1. Lower quality oils may not offer the same fuel economy, engine performance, or engine protection.

Volvo recommends Castrol.

Depending on your driving habits, premium or synthetic oils may provide superior fuel economy and engine protection. Consult your Volvo retailer for recommendations on premium or synthetic oils.

Oil additives must not be used.

Synthetic oil is not used when the oil is changed at the normal maintenance services. This oil is only used at customer request, at additional charge. Please consult your Volvo retailer.

Oil viscosity (stable ambient temperatures)



Operation in hot climates
When temperatures exceed 104 F (40 C) in your area, Volvo recommends, for the protection of your engine, that you use a heavier weight oil, such as such as SAE 5W-40 or 0W-40. See the viscosity chart.

Operation in temperate climates
Incorrect viscosity oil can shorten engine life. Under normal use when temperatures do not exceed 104 F (40 C), SAE 5W-30 will provide good fuel economy and engine protection. See the viscosity chart.

Extreme engine operation
Synthetic oils meeting SAE 0W-30 or 0W-40 and complying with oil quality requirements are recommended for driving in areas of sustained temperature extremes (hot or cold), when towing a trailer over long distances, and for prolonged driving in mountainous areas.



Edited by jadnhm (10/20/16 11:39 AM)

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#4229822 - 10/20/16 11:48 AM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: UltrafanUK]
jadnhm Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Moncton, NB, Canada
Thanks for the reply and advice.

I will cut the OCI back to 10k kms and test again. The viscosity was within spec, and there was TBN left to deal with, though as you point out perhaps not enough.

Looking back I would say that I didn't warm things up properly before doing the OC/sample. Next time I will be extra sure to get really nice and hot before putting it up and taking the oil out. 1.5% doesn't seem like it would be causing wear issues but maybe, so I'll be more careful next time to be sure.

Thanks for the recommendation on the ceratec, but I have a couple of follow-up questions:

  • If we assume this is some kind of wear issue that I wont' be able to get away from and I'll have high iron readings always, is there another oil that might be better suited? Perhaps something that comes with moly already in it?
  • If corrosion is a potential cause, would some kind of 'flush' product be a good idea?


Thanks again.

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#4230000 - 10/20/16 03:50 PM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: jadnhm]
Popsy Offline


Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 896
Loc: Frogland / Brittany
I'll second on HerrStig comment, Castrol 0W40 shouldn't need "help".

Maybe the high iron is coming from the top end, due to many cold start?

If you're looking for another oil with Moly, you have Motul 300V or Redline in 0W40, or simply the new M1 0W40 FS.
_________________________
96 Barchetta, Motul 300V 5W40 | 98 Barchetta, Quartz 9000 energy 5W40
05 Forfour 95, SHU 0W40 (gf's car) | 10 Colt Ralliart, 300V 0W40

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#4230357 - 10/21/16 07:07 AM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: Popsy]
jadnhm Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Moncton, NB, Canada
Thanks for the suggestion Popsy.

In your opinion, will moly be likely to help?

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#4230414 - 10/21/16 08:25 AM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: jadnhm]
Popsy Offline


Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 896
Loc: Frogland / Brittany
Frankly, I don't know, since I don't know what's going on.

If it were my car (I wish it were, lol), I'd give Motul 300V a try, but that's considering it's relatively cheap here.. I don't have experience with the LM additive so I can't comment, but it should add around 150-200ppm of moly.

Maybe you can run what you have now for a short run, an then change to Redline 0w30 or 0w40?
_________________________
96 Barchetta, Motul 300V 5W40 | 98 Barchetta, Quartz 9000 energy 5W40
05 Forfour 95, SHU 0W40 (gf's car) | 10 Colt Ralliart, 300V 0W40

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#4230561 - 10/21/16 12:17 PM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: jadnhm]
jadnhm Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Moncton, NB, Canada
Thanks again Popsy.

The reason I went with the Castrol in the first place was availability and price (~$6.60 CAD/l). The Motul and RL both sound like good products but not really available locally and much pricier.

I think I saw M1 5W-30 on sale at Walmart for $6.25 CAD/l, so maybe that's worth switching to? Looking at the VOA for Castrol Edge 0W-40 shows it's kind of thin at temp anyway, though it appears the Blackstone folks gave it a passing grade.

I know it was suggested that maybe I could think about an oil with moly to help with steel parts wear, but isn't the titanium additive Castrol uses supposed to do exactly that? Maybe it just doesn't work well?

Looking at some VOAs it looks like High Mileage oils tend to have some of the stuff I might be looking for here - moly, boron, etc. Perhaps I could consider switching to an HM formulation in 5W-30 - or perhaps blending 50/50 or 60/40 with something synthetic like this Edge 0W-40 or the 5W-40... I know Castrol and a few others have new synthetic HM oils but I haven't seen any locally yet.

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#4230691 - 10/21/16 03:26 PM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: jadnhm]
Popsy Offline


Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 896
Loc: Frogland / Brittany
Does Rotella T6 0W40 contain moly?
To be verified but I think it is MB 228.31 certified so should be suitable for your car, and it is available at Walmart or CT most of the time smile

Otherwise...maybe some Maxlife? I'd try something else than Castrol, their high mileage oils look pretty low on additives (those you can see on a uoa), but that's just my opinion.
_________________________
96 Barchetta, Motul 300V 5W40 | 98 Barchetta, Quartz 9000 energy 5W40
05 Forfour 95, SHU 0W40 (gf's car) | 10 Colt Ralliart, 300V 0W40

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#4230992 - 10/22/16 04:43 AM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: jadnhm]
UltrafanUK Offline


Registered: 04/18/16
Posts: 985
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: jadnhm
Thanks for the reply and advice.

I will cut the OCI back to 10k kms and test again. The viscosity was within spec, and there was TBN left to deal with, though as you point out perhaps not enough.

Looking back I would say that I didn't warm things up properly before doing the OC/sample. Next time I will be extra sure to get really nice and hot before putting it up and taking the oil out. 1.5% doesn't seem like it would be causing wear issues but maybe, so I'll be more careful next time to be sure.

Thanks for the recommendation on the ceratec, but I have a couple of follow-up questions:

  • If we assume this is some kind of wear issue that I wont' be able to get away from and I'll have high iron readings always, is there another oil that might be better suited? Perhaps something that comes with moly already in it?
  • If corrosion is a potential cause, would some kind of 'flush' product be a good idea?


Thanks again.


The idle flush is worth a try, as varnish deposits can increase corrosion in some cases. Oddly enough the lowest readings I got in Fe terms were post flush, although that might also have been because of sludge keeping some Fe particles from previous old oil.

Using a flush just before Ceratec will help it form a better layer and don't be fooled by Edge as it does not have a real full synthetic base stock. It's just another HC oil. A GTL like Ultra or a German Synthoil plus Ceratec is a real good combination.
_________________________
Shell Ultra 0 or 5w40 or Liqui Moly 5w40 plus Ceratec every long OCI.
LM idle flush every 100K km.

Top
#4231191 - 10/22/16 11:29 AM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: Popsy]
jadnhm Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Moncton, NB, Canada
You know I really like the T6 and uses it in an older Volvo I had, but it's gotten really expensive! ,,I haven't checked recently but I think it's getting pretty close to Amsoil territory.

I would definitely be willing to give Maxlife a try, though I'm not sure on pricing.

I guess illl need a little more research to figure out what will work here. That's really too bad - I was really happy with the price of the Castrol Edge.

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#4231193 - 10/22/16 11:32 AM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: jadnhm]
Popsy Offline


Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 896
Loc: Frogland / Brittany
This morning at Walmart, T6 5W40 was around 40CAD$ for 5 quarts, and 0W40 was like 47CAD$. On the expensive side, sure smirk

I'd try Maxlife 5W40, but I'm not really sure on its cold start performances.
_________________________
96 Barchetta, Motul 300V 5W40 | 98 Barchetta, Quartz 9000 energy 5W40
05 Forfour 95, SHU 0W40 (gf's car) | 10 Colt Ralliart, 300V 0W40

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#4231194 - 10/22/16 11:33 AM Re: Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2 [Re: UltrafanUK]
jadnhm Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Moncton, NB, Canada
Yeah the sludge issue is basically what I was thinking about. If there is a bunch of funky stuff in there that's full of iron then I would get high iron readings until that is dealt with - and it makes guy not have anything to do with actual wear occurring during that OCI...

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