Recent Topics
1991 Land Cruiser FJ80
by CCI - 02/20/20 09:57 PM
Gas price spread
by Chris142 - 02/20/20 09:28 PM
Need an Ecoboost Oil
by kstanf150 - 02/20/20 08:47 PM
2007 sedona
by macdole99 - 02/20/20 08:29 PM
USB-C, USB 3.0, 3.1Gen1, 3.1Gen2 Confusion.
by SubLGT - 02/20/20 08:12 PM
Apple Air Pro 2 tablet, How to send a link by email
by JLawrence08648 - 02/20/20 07:56 PM
Needed A Truck
by MParr - 02/20/20 07:21 PM
Battery Charger/Desulfator
by DBMaster - 02/20/20 06:45 PM
STP 0W-16 found in NC Autozone
by mv6845 - 02/20/20 06:20 PM
Cats
by Anduril - 02/20/20 06:12 PM
Are Onan oil filters now Fleetguard?
by atikovi - 02/20/20 05:57 PM
Car overheating under different conditions.
by MichaelRS - 02/20/20 04:39 PM
2008 CR-V AT Question
by Gebo - 02/20/20 04:18 PM
2019 Sienna
by s2krunner - 02/20/20 04:01 PM
Key FOB Will Only Open Doors
by Gebo - 02/20/20 03:47 PM
Leather Care
by Smoky14 - 02/20/20 03:36 PM
Does Caliper Pin Boot Over Bolt Or Sleeve?
by Fitz98 - 02/20/20 03:11 PM
Costco requiring membership for food court
by WhyMe - 02/20/20 02:56 PM
Newest Members
Grennx, coverage, Bubbabighatt, AAIRCraig, Jason454
70763 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
38 registered members (bbhero, Black_Thunder, BBDartCA, 4WD, blufeb95, 4 invisible), 1,233 guests, and 16 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics301,729
Posts5,201,535
Members70,763
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 7 of 7 1 6 7
Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: CATERHAM] #4196616 09/06/16 03:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,495
S
Shannow Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,495
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Greater oil flow is the reason you will have lower oil temp's when you are hammering an engine on track with a lighter oil than a heavier oil.


No, and again no. You don't get it.

The lighter oils have lower viscous shear, and generate less heat in the bearings areas (bearings and piston skirts)...this wastes less power and generates less heat within the oil...and thus there is less temperature rise.

Your more flow is an artifact of higher bearing side leakage (less piston squirter flow BTW...I suppose that saves some oil heat)

e.g.



37.4 Watts GENERATED in the bearing versus 73.4 Watts GENERATED in the 20W50 case.

That's the heat GENERATED in the bearing, not carried away from the bearing as is commonly misbelieved.

37.4W, over 179ml/min, verus 73.4 watts over 152ml/min is the difference in oil temperature, NOT more flow "carrying away" heat better.

edit...clearly the primary role of the lubricant is to keep the parts separated (MOFT - Minimum oil film thickness), so you DO NOT want to be compromising on your needs just to [censored] the relief valve on the pump.

Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: Bryanccfshr] #4196627 09/06/16 03:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
H
HTSS_TR Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
What if you drive a Lexus like a BMW?
What exactly is Driving something like a BMW anyway?
Extra legal speed happen quickly with these cars, Are we talking about simple reckless driving, or just being an aggressive [censored] in a Beamer? I notice while in the Beamer people are aggressive [censored] to me so it must be a cultural thing and they cut me off and try to race because of previous experiences with people driving like they are in a BMW? Maybe I need to weave in and out of traffic more so that my BMW feels useful.

Do I need to buy accessories like leather driving gloves from BMW to reach this level of driving?

Originally Posted By: edyvw
I gave you my opinion man. As for BMW a..... your post sounds like written by one.
As for reckless driving, we can debate on that. 120mph for me is not reckless driving, driving 10 below speed limit in left lane creating traffic jam, where chance of accident is increasing drastically is for me at least reckless driving.
These engines are created for hard driving or in the U.S. terms "reckless" driving. BMW moved to 0W20 in SOME applications because several engines had issues with bedding in process on NA market (N63) because people are using them as grocery getters, making sure they are not "reckless" but still wanted twin turbo V8 (mostly for neighbors).
By the way, N20 is NOT a new engine.

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Fun and assumption. I enjoy blasting up passes at 85 and 90 mph I have Admittedly hit triple digits to pass on some desert two lanes but you and I know that 120 will get you hauled off to be booked and if you can't clear road ahead for the next minute of driving, it is risky.
My sig is old, I never updated since the car was bought, I have been on the board for a bit of time and several vehicles.
What I drive is not how I identify myself.
I don't assume I am in Germany or that Germany is that great to drive in anymore. I am in the US and it's getting crowded even in Colorado.

How often do your engines are at or near redline on US highways ? With 7-8 speed AT most engines are below 3000 RPM at speed up to 85-90 MPH, now if you are on Autobahn at your engines are at redline for extended time your oil temperature can be as high as 130-140C, while it is no more than 100-110C even at 80-90 MPH in Death Valley.

xW40 at 130-140C is way thicker than xW20 at 100-110C. That is why I use xW20 in my 2000 E430.


'00 MB E430
'04 Honda S2000
'06 Volvo V70
'14 Honda Accord LX
"Throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pope Francis
Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: jdavis] #4196672 09/06/16 04:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,214
Bryanccfshr Offline
Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,214
We have not even discussed some of the low rpm high torque characteristics that these engines are designed for and the rod and main bearing load that ( driving it like a Lexus) can cause.


2018 Trd Pro 4Runner
2018 Tacoma off-road

Dealer 0w20 to M1 0w40 FS -it depends
Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: Shannow] #4196686 09/06/16 05:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,672
O
oil_film_movies Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,672
Originally Posted By: Shannow

Notice all the Minimum OFT numbers at 2500 RPM are also about the HTHS values of the oils.

Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: Shannow] #4196687 09/06/16 05:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,146
C
CATERHAM Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,146
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Greater oil flow is the reason you will have lower oil temp's when you are hammering an engine on track with a lighter oil than a heavier oil.


No, and again no. You don't get it.

The lighter oils have lower viscous shear, and generate less heat in the bearings areas (bearings and piston skirts)...this wastes less power and generates less heat within the oil...and thus there is less temperature rise.

Your more flow is an artifact of higher bearing side leakage (less piston squirter flow BTW...I suppose that saves some oil heat)

e.g.



37.4 Watts GENERATED in the bearing versus 73.4 Watts GENERATED in the 20W50 case.

That's the heat GENERATED in the bearing, not carried away from the bearing as is commonly misbelieved.

37.4W, over 179ml/min, verus 73.4 watts over 152ml/min is the difference in oil temperature, NOT more flow "carrying away" heat better.

edit...clearly the primary role of the lubricant is to keep the parts separated (MOFT - Minimum oil film thickness), so you DO NOT want to be compromising on your needs just to [censored] the relief valve on the pump.

I am not wrong.
I made no reference to how heat is generated in engine just the bottom line that heavier oil results in higher bulk oil temp's than lighter oil when an engine is being worked hard which is a FACT.
To add further, if the oil'S viscosity is too high, excessively high oil temp's can result. Another FACT.

It's worth noting than the only oil grade recommended by any auto company for the NA market in your captioned chart is the 0W-20 grade.


-'74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50 & VSOT
-'96 BMW 328i, 50/50 TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40
-'94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20
-'18 Tesla Model 3 - FF diff' oil
Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: CATERHAM] #4196769 09/06/16 06:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,495
S
Shannow Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,495
Sorry, when you said

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Greater oil flow is the reason you will have lower oil temp's when you are hammering an engine on track with a lighter oil than a heavier oil.


I though that you said that greater oil flow was the reason that you had lower oil temperatures.

My bad...

I'm still confused on your position...could you word it a little differently to explain what you ACTUALLY mean as opposed to what you wrote ?

Clarity is important

Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: CATERHAM] #4196773 09/06/16 06:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 9,070
E
edyvw Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 9,070
Quote:
I see you're a Castrol fan. So where are you getting the MRV and CCS figures you're referring to as I've never seen then published.
I like the polar nature of ester chemistry as much as the next guy but it doesn't play a role in hydrodynamic lubrication. PP spec's have no practical value and any 0W-20 will be way lighter at all typical start-up temp's vs Castrol 0W-40.
And as far as 0W-40s go I'd prefer M1 FS 0W-40 which is 20% lighter at even a modestly cold 32F due largely to it's considerably higher VI.


Since you brought up CCS and MRV I am asking you to back that up, and you cannot. So as usual you are just assuming.
I am fan of certain Castrol's, like 0W30/40 which I think are best oils for Euro gassers. On other hand, I have stocked up M1 5W30 ESP for my BMW diesel since I think it is best Low-SAPS oil for modern diesels. On other hand, I think Castrol 5W40 that VW uses in its dealerships is probably one of the lowest quality oil's for Euro gassers available in the market. If you read my posts you would know how critical I am of Catsrol, but you have tendency not to read anyone's posts carefully anyway.
As for FS, previous version was very bad in cold weather (for 0W40 oil to be precise), to the point where 5W40's in cold had better start (less rattle noise) then 0W40 M1, however, I am more concern with low HTHS of new FS, and the fact that currently oil CANNOT meet LL-01. All that beating around the bush why M1 does not have LL-01, let's just say what it is: current GTL base cannot meet it.
Also, previous M1 had poor TBN retention, so they hiked up TBN of new FS. Does that mean M1 expect same issues?
As for 0W20 in Lambo and Ferrari, yes, you can run 0W16, you just dump old oil put new and crank up the car. However, engines should last longer then 100K and should not be garaged.


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (BMW TPT 5W30+OE filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: wemay] #4196816 09/06/16 06:55 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 731
D
Doublehaul Offline
Offline
D
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 731
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
and have stupid faces

shrug


Why some find it so important to tell others what's interesting or not has always puzzled me. Weird obsession I guess.


I've come to find many BMW drivers are like foodies...they think they know more than everyone else and we're all supposed to feel inferior when they start talking about mouth feel. Say what you will about Lexus...at least you know they will start in the morning.


2019 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 TRD
2019 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD*

Mobil 1 0w40


The specs on the back are more important than the label on the front
Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: CATERHAM] #4196826 09/06/16 07:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 9,070
E
edyvw Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 9,070
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Greater oil flow is the reason you will have lower oil temp's when you are hammering an engine on track with a lighter oil than a heavier oil.


No, and again no. You don't get it.

The lighter oils have lower viscous shear, and generate less heat in the bearings areas (bearings and piston skirts)...this wastes less power and generates less heat within the oil...and thus there is less temperature rise.

Your more flow is an artifact of higher bearing side leakage (less piston squirter flow BTW...I suppose that saves some oil heat)

e.g.



37.4 Watts GENERATED in the bearing versus 73.4 Watts GENERATED in the 20W50 case.

That's the heat GENERATED in the bearing, not carried away from the bearing as is commonly misbelieved.

37.4W, over 179ml/min, verus 73.4 watts over 152ml/min is the difference in oil temperature, NOT more flow "carrying away" heat better.

edit...clearly the primary role of the lubricant is to keep the parts separated (MOFT - Minimum oil film thickness), so you DO NOT want to be compromising on your needs just to [censored] the relief valve on the pump.

I am not wrong.
I made no reference to how heat is generated in engine just the bottom line that heavier oil results in higher bulk oil temp's than lighter oil when an engine is being worked hard which is a FACT.
To add further, if the oil'S viscosity is too high, excessively high oil temp's can result. Another FACT.

It's worth noting than the only oil grade recommended by any auto company for the NA market in your captioned chart is the 0W-20 grade.




You are right there, but how does that make it more important then wear protection that bit thicker roil provides?


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (BMW TPT 5W30+OE filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: Doublehaul] #4196827 09/06/16 07:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 9,070
E
edyvw Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 9,070
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
and have stupid faces

shrug


Why some find it so important to tell others what's interesting or not has always puzzled me. Weird obsession I guess.


I've come to find many BMW drivers are like foodies...they think they know more than everyone else and we're all supposed to feel inferior when they start talking about mouth feel. Say what you will about Lexus...at least you know they will start in the morning.

You mean Toyota?


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (BMW TPT 5W30+OE filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
Re: BMW 0W-20 [Re: edyvw] #4196866 09/06/16 08:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,976
rooflessVW Offline
Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,976
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
and have stupid faces

shrug


Why some find it so important to tell others what's interesting or not has always puzzled me. Weird obsession I guess.


I've come to find many BMW drivers are like foodies...they think they know more than everyone else and we're all supposed to feel inferior when they start talking about mouth feel. Say what you will about Lexus...at least you know they will start in the morning.

You mean Toyota?


Same same. wink


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Page 7 of 7 1 6 7
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™