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Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L #4185938
08/25/16 05:38 AM
08/25/16 05:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 252
Germany
turboseize Offline OP
turboseize  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 252
Germany
Just received my lab report on the last oci.
Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km (6735mi) in a Saab 900 turbo 16V (B202L).

https://turboseize.wordpress.com/2016/08...-turbo-b202l-2/

Saab 900 turbo 16, model year 1985. Engine code B202L. Total mileage 591006km, which equals 369148 miles. Engine rebuild at 410000km/254700mi due to defective LH-jet (did not enrich enough under full boost and killed a piston ring).

OIL Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40
MILES IN USE 6735 (10552km), 5 months
MILES 369148 (591006km)
SAMPLE TAKEN 16/08/19

wear metals (mg/kg)

IRON 13
CHROME 0
TIN 0
ALUMINUM 1
NICKEL 0
COPPER 8
LEAD 1
MANGANESE 0


pollution (mg/kg)

SILICON 4
POTASSIUM 1
SODIUM 4
WATER (%) <0.1
IR-GLYKOL negative
FUEL (%) 0.84


Additives (mg/kg)

CALCIUM 2182
MAGNESIUM 12
BORON 50
ZINC 973
PHOSPHORUS 742
BARIUM 0
MOLYBDENUM 48
SULPHUR 1774


state of oil:

visc. @40°C (mm2/s) 70.02
visc. @100°C (mm2/s) 12.77
VI 185
OXYDATION (A/cm) 4
NITRATION (A/cm) 3
SULFATION (A/cm) 6
dispergency* (%) 85
SOOT INDEX** <0.1
BN 9.71


* the german word was "Schmutztragevermögen", hope I translated that right.
** the lab has introduced the "Rußindex", an in-house tool to check for soot in
gasoline oil, as soot from direct-injection engines will not show correctly in the
standard test for diesel oils



Here is the original. On the left: Shell Helix Ultra, then Aral Super Tronic, to the right Mobil1 "New Life".



Blog (in german):
https://turboseize.wordpress.com/2016/08...-turbo-b202l-2/


Prvious uoa discussend on bitog: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...105#Post4045534

Last edited by turboseize; 08/25/16 05:41 AM.

Life ist too short for boring cars.
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: turboseize] #4186849
08/26/16 07:45 AM
08/26/16 07:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,473
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,473
Malaysia
Wear rates looks good .... more so for this high mileage engine, which appears to be performing normally.

The used oil condition still looks good, with very mild viscosity thinning.
From the Blotter Spot Test picture provided, dispersancy is still very strong with minimal insolubles being present ...... seems to be in compliance with your dispersancy index reading of 85%.This index is rarely provided in Bitog.

I believe this used oil is still serviceable, and you could consider extending oil change interval to 15000-18000 km.

Do you mistake Helix Ultra 0W40 for Helix Ultra 5W40 ?

Just my 2 cents. blush

Last edited by zeng; 08/26/16 07:46 AM.
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: turboseize] #4186883
08/26/16 08:25 AM
08/26/16 08:25 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 936
Frogland / Brittany
Popsy Offline
Popsy  Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 936
Frogland / Brittany
Just curious, why SHU 0W40 mistaken for 5W40?
I can get SHU 0W40 cheaper than 5W40, but it is on the thin side of a 40, and I always (mistakenly?) thought it was a weaker sauce than 5W40.


96 Barchetta, Motul 300V 5W40 | 98 Barchetta, Quartz 9000 energy 5W40
05 Forfour 95, SHU 0W40 (gf's car) | 10 Colt Ralliart, 300V 0W40
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: Popsy] #4186896
08/26/16 08:35 AM
08/26/16 08:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,473
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,473
Malaysia
Originally Posted By: Popsy
Just curious, why SHU 0W40 mistaken for 5W40?
I can get SHU 0W40 cheaper than 5W40, but it is on the thin side of a 40, and I always (mistakenly?) thought it was a weaker sauce than 5W40.


Oops, my bad .... you mean SHU 0W40 is readily available in Europe?
Over here,no SHU 0W40 is available.

Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: turboseize] #4186920
08/26/16 09:06 AM
08/26/16 09:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,255
CA
CharlieBauer Offline
CharlieBauer  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,255
CA
Very interesting.

The BN in all three cases seems very very high.


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: CharlieBauer] #4186936
08/26/16 09:24 AM
08/26/16 09:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,615
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,615
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
The BN in all three cases seems very very high.

I wonder if their ultra-low sulfur gasoline can be partially credited for this.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: CharlieBauer] #4186944
08/26/16 09:36 AM
08/26/16 09:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,473
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,473
Malaysia
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Very interesting.

The BN in all three cases seems very very high.


Heck ..... that's exceptional and unbelievable ! ???

Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: zeng] #4187076
08/26/16 12:42 PM
08/26/16 12:42 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 936
Frogland / Brittany
Popsy Offline
Popsy  Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 936
Frogland / Brittany
Originally Posted By: zeng
Oops, my bad .... you mean SHU 0W40 is readily available in Europe?
Over here,no SHU 0W40 is available.

It is available in Germany, for 20€/5L, which is the cheapest 0W40 I can find here smile
5W40 is available in any supermarket.


96 Barchetta, Motul 300V 5W40 | 98 Barchetta, Quartz 9000 energy 5W40
05 Forfour 95, SHU 0W40 (gf's car) | 10 Colt Ralliart, 300V 0W40
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: zeng] #4187160
08/26/16 02:04 PM
08/26/16 02:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 252
Germany
turboseize Offline OP
turboseize  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 252
Germany
Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: Popsy
Just curious, why SHU 0W40 mistaken for 5W40?
I can get SHU 0W40 cheaper than 5W40, but it is on the thin side of a 40, and I always (mistakenly?) thought it was a weaker sauce than 5W40.


Oops, my bad .... you mean SHU 0W40 is readily available in Europe?
Over here,no SHU 0W40 is available.


It is the cheapest 0w-40 that I know of. It certainly is the cheapest 0w-40 with MB 229.5 and Porsche A40 approvals...
I buy mine here:
http://www.motoroel100.de/epages/6259303...Shell1/SAE_0W40


Last edited by turboseize; 08/26/16 02:04 PM.

Life ist too short for boring cars.
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: Quattro Pete] #4187187
08/26/16 02:36 PM
08/26/16 02:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 252
Germany
turboseize Offline OP
turboseize  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 252
Germany
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
The BN in all three cases seems very very high.

I wonder if their ultra-low sulfur gasoline can be partially credited for this.



I think there are two contributing factors.
1) the car is mostly used for medium and long distances. Short tripping is rare. As in one or two grocery runs a week and one trip to the boat house. And then it is 2x600km long distance commute the next weekend. So perhaps 90% of my km are long distance-drives. So not much to worry about fuel dilution (although these cars do run very rich on full boost). And also not much condensation...
2) ultra-low sulphur fuels (10ppm).
Also, the car is filled up mostly at the "big brands", and only very rarely at independent gas stations. (In theory, better quality controls and maintenenc of the stations should reduce the risk of contaminated fuel. Also, you might not know which fuel the independ sells - it might be exactly the same as the brand station on the other side of the road, it might also be that he has bought just the cheapest add pack... you just do not know.) Fuel grades varie -I mostly switch between e10 and 98, or even 100 (Shell, ÖMV) or 102ROn (Aral).

Last edited by turboseize; 08/26/16 02:38 PM.

Life ist too short for boring cars.
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: turboseize] #4187190
08/26/16 02:43 PM
08/26/16 02:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,255
CA
CharlieBauer Offline
CharlieBauer  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,255
CA
Maybe, but I would question the lab on what exact method they use to measure BN. You're pretty much remaining at virgin TBN.

If they are accurate, then you'll never need to change oil, unless fuel dilution actually causes problems like reducing your BN!


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: turboseize] #4187541
08/27/16 04:12 AM
08/27/16 04:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 252
Germany
turboseize Offline OP
turboseize  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 252
Germany
As far as I know, there are two different methods to measure TBN, that give slightly different readings. So my TBN measured by the other method might show a bit lower than stated on this sheet; but it should still be far from critical...

You're probably right that with any of these oils (be them GTL, or mostly PAO-based like the other two) I should be able to extend oil change intervals drastically. 20.000km sound totally doable. That is, as long as my driving pattern does not change...
I would strongly advise against anybody with the same car, but a different usage pattern seing my UOAs and concluding he can extend intervals. He might, but then he might not... We simply do not know wether the high remaining TBN is a result of sulphur-free fuel or of the driving pattern. (I remember seing a german UOA by the same lab of a short tripped VW 1.4 TSI with high fuel dilution, atrocious wear numbers, wich also showed low TBN. I also know a guy that put 1,2 million kilometers on a little Skoda Fabia TDI, who, adter doing some UOAS early on, extended his intervals to 60.000km. That is a 37,290 mile oci for the better part of a million kilometers... But then, again: ultra low sulphur fuel and no short tripping.)

Last edited by turboseize; 08/27/16 04:20 AM.

Life ist too short for boring cars.
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: turboseize] #4187556
08/27/16 05:22 AM
08/27/16 05:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,473
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,473
Malaysia
I believe you belong to another league whose OCI is 20K-50K km.
Just speculating blush

Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: turboseize] #4188396
08/28/16 01:47 AM
08/28/16 01:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,255
CA
CharlieBauer Offline
CharlieBauer  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,255
CA
We have low sulphur gasoline and lots of highway driving in CA too.

But no UOA with better TBN than VOA grin


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain
Re: Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km in Saab B202L [Re: CharlieBauer] #4188410
08/28/16 02:52 AM
08/28/16 02:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 985
England
UltrafanUK Offline
UltrafanUK  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 985
England
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Maybe, but I would question the lab on what exact method they use to measure BN. You're pretty much remaining at virgin TBN.

If they are accurate, then you'll never need to change oil, unless fuel dilution actually causes problems like reducing your BN!


The TBN figures are just not possible, one of them is even higher than the VOA.

The UOA results are good and the OCI could be extended, BUT I would try another LAB to find out what the real TBN figure is first.
I use a min TBN figure based on one third of the original, not the minimum figure of one quoted by some labs.

Last edited by UltrafanUK; 08/28/16 03:02 AM.

Shell Ultra 0 or 5w40 or Liqui Moly 5w40 plus Ceratec every long OCI.
LM idle flush every 100K km.
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