Most of us bike guys have at one time or another used Rotella in our bikes. I do in 5 different bikes. The last change I used T5 in my XT650R a few days ago. I just saw where they are changing the whole line up. The T6 5w40 is supposed to be very shear stable now as many of you guys have seen that the 5w has sheared to 30wt rather quickly. It's is also supposed to be way more heat resistant so it may be a good oil for air cooled bikes. I also think it is now derived from natural gas like the penzoil oils.
Rotella line upgraded
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Good that it's still JASO MA and MA2 spec'd. T6 doesn't look like it changed, just a new bottle. It doesn't meet the CK-4 spec yet.
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Changing it to a GTL base. Shell's dedicated motorcycle oil, Shell Advance Ultra 4T is also now using a Gas To Liquid synthesized base oil.
Originally Posted By: LotI
Good that it's still JASO MA and MA2 spec'd. T6 doesn't look like it changed, just a new bottle. It doesn't meet the CK-4 spec yet.
It hits the shelf in August but the certification CK4 will be on the label in December. At least that's what I have read.
Good that it's still JASO MA and MA2 spec'd. T6 doesn't look like it changed, just a new bottle. It doesn't meet the CK-4 spec yet.
It hits the shelf in August but the certification CK4 will be on the label in December. At least that's what I have read.
prolly a group III from their GTL oil, depends on pricing compared to real group IV + V oils. as the existing supply of base oils from SOPUS is used up we will see more of the GTL oil from their multi-billion plant. looks to be going ahead with a plant in pittsburg pa, expensive to build the plant but prolly cheaper to make quality base oils from gas than refine the dirty CRUDE oils
Originally Posted By: benjy
prolly a group III from their GTL oil, depends on pricing compared to real group IV + V oils. as the existing supply of base oils from SOPUS is used up we will see more of the GTL oil from their multi-billion plant. looks to be going ahead with a plant in pittsburg pa, expensive to build the plant but prolly cheaper to make quality base oils from gas than refine the dirty CRUDE oils
Exactly! Any bottle in the US labelled as "full synthetic" is hydrocracked crude. Marketing GTL in the US as synthetic is a dilemma for now. The EU will not allow any group III to be labeled as "synthetic" That's why Shell isn't marketing the GTL Ultra oils in the US. GTL is cheaper to make and more profitable and regardless of how pure and consistent the molecules are, it's still a group III oil.
Back to the Rotella...upgraded how? In that it meets a new API designation or meets MA2? Blends/formulas changes are common. Marketing will always lead some to believe secret miraculous scientific breakthroughs have occurred when reality is
they blended a better and cheaper to make "AD pack". Remember... the problem and differences between oils is that they only have to meet given standards....the trick is to find the ones that exceed them.
prolly a group III from their GTL oil, depends on pricing compared to real group IV + V oils. as the existing supply of base oils from SOPUS is used up we will see more of the GTL oil from their multi-billion plant. looks to be going ahead with a plant in pittsburg pa, expensive to build the plant but prolly cheaper to make quality base oils from gas than refine the dirty CRUDE oils
Exactly! Any bottle in the US labelled as "full synthetic" is hydrocracked crude. Marketing GTL in the US as synthetic is a dilemma for now. The EU will not allow any group III to be labeled as "synthetic" That's why Shell isn't marketing the GTL Ultra oils in the US. GTL is cheaper to make and more profitable and regardless of how pure and consistent the molecules are, it's still a group III oil.
Back to the Rotella...upgraded how? In that it meets a new API designation or meets MA2? Blends/formulas changes are common. Marketing will always lead some to believe secret miraculous scientific breakthroughs have occurred when reality is
they blended a better and cheaper to make "AD pack". Remember... the problem and differences between oils is that they only have to meet given standards....the trick is to find the ones that exceed them.
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Originally Posted By: JonfromCB
Originally Posted By: benjy
prolly a group III from their GTL oil, depends on pricing compared to real group IV + V oils. as the existing supply of base oils from SOPUS is used up we will see more of the GTL oil from their multi-billion plant. looks to be going ahead with a plant in pittsburg pa, expensive to build the plant but prolly cheaper to make quality base oils from gas than refine the dirty CRUDE oils
Exactly! Any bottle in the US labelled as "full synthetic" is hydrocracked crude. Marketing GTL in the US as synthetic is a dilemma for now. The EU will not allow any group III to be labeled as "synthetic" That's why Shell isn't marketing the GTL Ultra oils in the US. GTL is cheaper to make and more profitable and regardless of how pure and consistent the molecules are, it's still a group III oil.
Back to the Rotella...upgraded how? In that it meets a new API designation or meets MA2? Blends/formulas changes are common. Marketing will always lead some to believe secret miraculous scientific breakthroughs have occurred when reality is
they blended a better and cheaper to make "AD pack". Remember... the problem and differences between oils is that they only have to meet given standards....the trick is to find the ones that exceed them.
Are you referring to any bottle of Rotella labelled as "full synthetic" or any bottle of any brand's oil?
Originally Posted By: benjy
prolly a group III from their GTL oil, depends on pricing compared to real group IV + V oils. as the existing supply of base oils from SOPUS is used up we will see more of the GTL oil from their multi-billion plant. looks to be going ahead with a plant in pittsburg pa, expensive to build the plant but prolly cheaper to make quality base oils from gas than refine the dirty CRUDE oils
Exactly! Any bottle in the US labelled as "full synthetic" is hydrocracked crude. Marketing GTL in the US as synthetic is a dilemma for now. The EU will not allow any group III to be labeled as "synthetic" That's why Shell isn't marketing the GTL Ultra oils in the US. GTL is cheaper to make and more profitable and regardless of how pure and consistent the molecules are, it's still a group III oil.
Back to the Rotella...upgraded how? In that it meets a new API designation or meets MA2? Blends/formulas changes are common. Marketing will always lead some to believe secret miraculous scientific breakthroughs have occurred when reality is
they blended a better and cheaper to make "AD pack". Remember... the problem and differences between oils is that they only have to meet given standards....the trick is to find the ones that exceed them.
Are you referring to any bottle of Rotella labelled as "full synthetic" or any bottle of any brand's oil?
Never mind. That is just too much inaccuracy to even formulate a response.
As a "tribologist" I'd expect you are familiar with US motor oil labeling laws. "full synthetic" is legal labelling for hydro-cracked group III in the US ...."Synthetic" is not....Note the addition of the word "full" You will not see the words "full synthetic" on any bottle of group IV or higher base oil.
OP, If you want to clarify any uncertainly about Rotella blends, base oils, sources or Ad Packages just call Shell customer service in Houston and ask to speak with their lab. They will provide you with a plethora of specific information that many might think/believe Is proprietary.
OP, If you want to clarify any uncertainly about Rotella blends, base oils, sources or Ad Packages just call Shell customer service in Houston and ask to speak with their lab. They will provide you with a plethora of specific information that many might think/believe Is proprietary.
Originally Posted By: JonfromCB
As a "tribologist" I'd expect you are familiar with US motor oil labeling laws. "full synthetic" is legal labelling for hydro-cracked group III in the US ...."Synthetic" is not....Note the addition of the word "full" You will not see the words "full synthetic" on any bottle of group IV or higher base oil.
Are there "US motor oil labeling laws" to begin with?
As a "tribologist" I'd expect you are familiar with US motor oil labeling laws. "full synthetic" is legal labelling for hydro-cracked group III in the US ...."Synthetic" is not....Note the addition of the word "full" You will not see the words "full synthetic" on any bottle of group IV or higher base oil.
Are there "US motor oil labeling laws" to begin with?
Originally Posted By: JonfromCB
As a "tribologist" I'd expect you are familiar with US motor oil labeling laws. "full synthetic" is legal labelling for hydro-cracked group III in the US ...."Synthetic" is not....Note the addition of the word "full" You will not see the words "full synthetic" on any bottle of group IV or higher base oil.
As one example, you mentioned in a previous thread that the Spectro Platinum 4 was 100% PAO based and that is labelled as "full synthetic"
Some other oils include: Bel-Ray EXS Synthetic Ester 4T Engine Oil, Maxima V-Twin Full Synthetic Engine Oil, Motorex Pro 4 and Motorex Power Synt 4T, Redline Motorcycle Oil and Silkolene Pro 4.
I believe all of those oils state "full synthetic" or "fully synthetic" on their labels and they all appear to be PAO and ester base oil engine oils. At least from the data I could find quickly on them. I can't see any indication of group I, II or III as anything more than an additive carrier in those products.
I feel like my original questions may have been taken the wrong way though. I was just asking whether you were suggesting that all synthetics in the US used group III or whether you were only referring to Rotella and some select others. Because there are a lot of "full synthetic" oils that are exactly as advertised.
I get the feeling we are just having miscommunication though, because I'm pretty sure we actually in agreement on this.
As a "tribologist" I'd expect you are familiar with US motor oil labeling laws. "full synthetic" is legal labelling for hydro-cracked group III in the US ...."Synthetic" is not....Note the addition of the word "full" You will not see the words "full synthetic" on any bottle of group IV or higher base oil.
As one example, you mentioned in a previous thread that the Spectro Platinum 4 was 100% PAO based and that is labelled as "full synthetic"
Some other oils include: Bel-Ray EXS Synthetic Ester 4T Engine Oil, Maxima V-Twin Full Synthetic Engine Oil, Motorex Pro 4 and Motorex Power Synt 4T, Redline Motorcycle Oil and Silkolene Pro 4.
I believe all of those oils state "full synthetic" or "fully synthetic" on their labels and they all appear to be PAO and ester base oil engine oils. At least from the data I could find quickly on them. I can't see any indication of group I, II or III as anything more than an additive carrier in those products.
I feel like my original questions may have been taken the wrong way though. I was just asking whether you were suggesting that all synthetics in the US used group III or whether you were only referring to Rotella and some select others. Because there are a lot of "full synthetic" oils that are exactly as advertised.
I get the feeling we are just having miscommunication though, because I'm pretty sure we actually in agreement on this.
Fully/Full Synthetic is marketing... in the US a GrpIII or higher oil can be labeled "synthetic". Now whether a GrpIII is really a synthetic is for guys on BITOG to lose sleep over.
Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Fully/Full Synthetic is marketing... in the US a GrpIII or higher oil can be labeled "synthetic". Now whether a GrpIII is really a synthetic is for guys on BITOG to lose sleep over.
For some products, absolutely, but there are still plenty of full synthetic oils that use groups IV and V as their base oil.
Fully/Full Synthetic is marketing... in the US a GrpIII or higher oil can be labeled "synthetic". Now whether a GrpIII is really a synthetic is for guys on BITOG to lose sleep over.
For some products, absolutely, but there are still plenty of full synthetic oils that use groups IV and V as their base oil.
Originally Posted By: JonfromCB
The EU will not allow any group III to be labeled as "synthetic"
Putting a bit of science into this, that statement is at least 100% false.
Originally Posted By: JonfromCB
That's why Shell isn't marketing the GTL Ultra oils in the US. GTL is cheaper to make and more profitable and regardless of how pure and consistent the molecules are, it's still a group III oil.
Some truth here (the Group III bit at least). The economics of the Pearl plant in Qatar are complicated by the national partnership and the falling oil and gas prices. Some of the benefit of the GTL plant is about making use of a gas field that is large but in the wrong place. Doing some Fischer-Tropsch to make fuel and oil makes it an easily shipable product that can plug into conventional demand and use.
The EU will not allow any group III to be labeled as "synthetic"
Putting a bit of science into this, that statement is at least 100% false.
Originally Posted By: JonfromCB
That's why Shell isn't marketing the GTL Ultra oils in the US. GTL is cheaper to make and more profitable and regardless of how pure and consistent the molecules are, it's still a group III oil.
Some truth here (the Group III bit at least). The economics of the Pearl plant in Qatar are complicated by the national partnership and the falling oil and gas prices. Some of the benefit of the GTL plant is about making use of a gas field that is large but in the wrong place. Doing some Fischer-Tropsch to make fuel and oil makes it an easily shipable product that can plug into conventional demand and use.
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Fully/Full Synthetic is marketing... in the US a GrpIII or higher oil can be labeled "synthetic". Now whether a GrpIII is really a synthetic is for guys on BITOG to lose sleep over.
For some products, absolutely, but there are still plenty of full synthetic oils that use groups IV and V as their base oil.
?
"full" doesn't mean anything... In the US a SYNTHETIC oil can be GRP III, IV or V, period!
Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Fully/Full Synthetic is marketing... in the US a GrpIII or higher oil can be labeled "synthetic". Now whether a GrpIII is really a synthetic is for guys on BITOG to lose sleep over.
For some products, absolutely, but there are still plenty of full synthetic oils that use groups IV and V as their base oil.
?
"full" doesn't mean anything... In the US a SYNTHETIC oil can be GRP III, IV or V, period!
Rand, Perhaps you are not familiar with "oil history" and the lawsuit between Mobil and Castrol...you can google it and read it for yourself...please don't take my word for it...I'm a confused random guy from Iowa...lol
Basically, as a result of the suit, group III hydrocracked mineral oils are allowed to be labelled "full synthetic" in the United States. Here are my two points for many of you who weren't around or just don't know. The results of this labelling have "dupped" most Americans into believing the hydrocracked mineral oil labelled as "full synthetic" in the US is actually synthetic oil...it is not synthetic, it is altered mineral oil. 2nd Point: Countries other than the US will not allow Group III oils to be labelled as "synthetic" or "full synthetic"...including GTL base oils.
Here's a link to a succinct synopsis of above points...it's not exhaustive as to how other countries label oil, but it's short and accurate as it applies to the US. Pay particular attention to the authors account under "Group III Oils" : https://www.klotzwarehouse.com/index.php?show_aux_page=6
BTW, I was born and raised in Ohio and have lived in 6 countries and 7 states. You should get out and learn about the world before you insult someone because of where they live...or have done research and investment in energy stocks for 30 years.
Basically, as a result of the suit, group III hydrocracked mineral oils are allowed to be labelled "full synthetic" in the United States. Here are my two points for many of you who weren't around or just don't know. The results of this labelling have "dupped" most Americans into believing the hydrocracked mineral oil labelled as "full synthetic" in the US is actually synthetic oil...it is not synthetic, it is altered mineral oil. 2nd Point: Countries other than the US will not allow Group III oils to be labelled as "synthetic" or "full synthetic"...including GTL base oils.
Here's a link to a succinct synopsis of above points...it's not exhaustive as to how other countries label oil, but it's short and accurate as it applies to the US. Pay particular attention to the authors account under "Group III Oils" : https://www.klotzwarehouse.com/index.php?show_aux_page=6
BTW, I was born and raised in Ohio and have lived in 6 countries and 7 states. You should get out and learn about the world before you insult someone because of where they live...or have done research and investment in energy stocks for 30 years.
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Originally Posted By: JonfromCB
Perhaps you are not familiar with "oil history" and the lawsuit between Mobil and Castrol...you can google it and read it for yourself...please don't take my word for it...I'm a confused random guy from Iowa...lol
There was a lawsuit? No, I'm not familiar with any lawsuit. Either I missed the lawsuit or you are confused.
And earlier you mentioned "US motor oil labeling laws." I'm also not familiar with those either. Can you explain them?
Perhaps you are not familiar with "oil history" and the lawsuit between Mobil and Castrol...you can google it and read it for yourself...please don't take my word for it...I'm a confused random guy from Iowa...lol
There was a lawsuit? No, I'm not familiar with any lawsuit. Either I missed the lawsuit or you are confused.
And earlier you mentioned "US motor oil labeling laws." I'm also not familiar with those either. Can you explain them?
There was NO lawsuit "you can Google". It was an FTC unfair trade practice dispute. You can Google that.
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