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#4171211 - 08/07/16 04:47 PM VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
Hello everyone,

I've been recently searching in internet some info on zddp quantities in mid SAPS oils and I found tables of ACEA C3 (mid SAPS) and A3/B4/MB 229.5 (full SAPS) oils on russian forum http://www.oil-club.ru/ (I do understand some basic russian so I was searching in multiple languages).

You do not need to understand the language to find out zddp quantities, simply search for P or Zn on the left and on the top you got an oil number like 1, 2, 3, etc. The oil name is listed on the bottom for each oil number.

Table 1 (5W-30, API SN, ACEA C3, mid SAPS)



Table 2 (5W-30, API SN, ACEA C3, mid SAPS)



Table 3 (5W-40, A3/B4, MB 229.5, full SAPS)



Table 4 (5W-40, A3/B4, MB 229.5, full SAPS)



Table 5 (5W-40, A3/B4, MB 229.5, full SAPS)



I presume we can trust this information because it makes no sense for them to publish some false info on their forum. In some way it is a great collection of VOA info and it is represented in a nice way.

What strikes me is that in fact being a mid SAPS oil does not necessary mean that it is going to have low quantites of ZDDP. As you can see from the "Table 1" the oil #7 Liqui Moly Top Tec 4600 5W-30 has 933 ppm of P and 1034 of Zink and yet a striking sulphated ash of 0.79 %.
_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

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#4171551 - 08/08/16 02:36 AM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: volodymyr]
SonofJoe Offline


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 1052
Loc: Europe
Excellent find! Very, very informative. Shame they didn't include HTHS but I guess you can't have everything...

A couple of points...

US readers, look at the CCS numbers of these oils (it's the 9th number down in the row which starts with 6600). Eyeballing the numbers, most CCS's are in the 5800 to 6200 cP range. These are way higher numbers than what you see in the US because Euro oils don't have to pass the ILSAC fuel economy tests.

Did everyone notice that Euro oils are, with one or two exceptions, almost always uniquely calcium based with virtually no magnesium being used? I laugh when I hear all this dog-rot about low speed knock being caused by calcium and how we need to move to Mg. There not enough magnesium sulphonate in the entire world to allow such a switch!

I thought it interesting that so many of the so-called 'low ash' C3 oil breached the 0.8 max ash limit! I know the test itself is not particularly repeatable but even so, this is pretty poor show because this is what people are paying top dollar for. That all the oils were formulated to push right against the ash limit says to me, the limit is set too low for the basic needs of the engine regardless of the needs of the emissions control system.

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#4171812 - 08/08/16 11:32 AM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: volodymyr]
1JZ_E46 Offline


Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 1225
Loc: Oregon
Awesome find. Thank you for sharing. Looks like the Liqui-Moly I use has the highest viscosity index.. relatively light add-pack though. Next fill will be with PP Euro 5W-40.
_________________________
2007 BMW X5 4.8i, 105K: Castrol EDGE 0W-40, Mann
2012 Mini Cooper, 45K: Castrol EDGE 0W-30, Mann

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#4171818 - 08/08/16 11:37 AM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: volodymyr]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35862
Loc: Great Lakes
Why no Castrol oils in this line up? I know they tested a bunch of them...
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
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#4171950 - 08/08/16 03:06 PM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: SonofJoe]
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
SonofJoe,

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
US readers, look at the CCS numbers of these oils (it's the 9th number down in the row which starts with 6600).


In fact I can translate to English the original doc (most important part of it) if moderator will allow me to edit my first post in this topic. Somehow I cannot edit it anymore.


Edited by volodymyr (08/08/16 03:06 PM)
_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

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#4171953 - 08/08/16 03:11 PM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: 1JZ_E46]
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
1JZ_E46,

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Awesome find. Thank you for sharing. Looks like the Liqui-Moly I use has the highest viscosity index.. relatively light add-pack though. Next fill will be with PP Euro 5W-40.


Indeed, Liqui Moly has quite good numbers, especially Top Tec 4600: plenty of zddp, yet low ash numbers. I checked the price of this oil in my country, and it is [censored] expensive (22 USD per liter) even though the border with Germany is quite close smile
_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

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#4171960 - 08/08/16 03:17 PM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: Quattro Pete]
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
Quattro Pete,

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Why no Castrol oils in this line up? I know they tested a bunch of them...


IIRC, in Eastern Europe people would prefer full saps Castrol oils, and there is no Castrol with MB 229.5 in 5W-40 viscosity sold in Europe, so it did not fit the table. The purpose of this table was to show oils with similar characteristics, so maybe one day we will see some 0W-40 or 0W-30 MB 229.5 table, I will keep an eye on it smile
_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

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#4171987 - 08/08/16 04:00 PM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: volodymyr]
1JZ_E46 Offline


Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 1225
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
1JZ_E46,

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Awesome find. Thank you for sharing. Looks like the Liqui-Moly I use has the highest viscosity index.. relatively light add-pack though. Next fill will be with PP Euro 5W-40.


Indeed, Liqui Moly has quite good numbers, especially Top Tec 4600: plenty of zddp, yet low ash numbers. I checked the price of this oil in my country, and it is [censored] expensive (22 USD per liter) even though the border with Germany is quite close smile


Crazy! I would have thought you guys could have anything for cheap(er) in the euro-zone with the all might swiss franc. Must high due to some sort of tax/tariff on German imports?
_________________________
2007 BMW X5 4.8i, 105K: Castrol EDGE 0W-40, Mann
2012 Mini Cooper, 45K: Castrol EDGE 0W-30, Mann

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#4172039 - 08/08/16 05:39 PM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: 1JZ_E46]
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
1JZ_E46,

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Crazy! I would have thought you guys could have anything for cheap(er) in the euro-zone with the all might swiss franc. Must high due to some sort of tax/tariff on German imports?


Since we are not in the EU, there are some import taxes, but somehow it is only Liqui Moly that gets exceptionally more expensive here. Usual stuff like Castrol, Valvoline or Mobil 1 is priced rather well.


Edited by volodymyr (08/08/16 05:39 PM)
_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

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#4172404 - 08/09/16 03:44 AM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: volodymyr]
weasley Offline


Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 749
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
...and there is no Castrol with MB 229.5 in 5W-40 viscosity sold in Europe...


Not in your part of Europe, perhaps...
Castrol EDGE 5W-40 A3/B4 whistle
_________________________
2017 SEAT Leon 1.4 EcoTSI 150 FR Technology DSG
2018 Volvo XC60 D5
2011 KTM 990 SMT

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#4172838 - 08/09/16 02:04 PM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: weasley]
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
weasley,

Originally Posted By: weasley
Not in your part of Europe, perhaps...Castrol EDGE 5W-40 A3/B4whistle


Thanks for the link. Very nice find actually, I did once search in Austria, Germany, France, Italy for MB 229.5 Edge in 5W-30 or 5W-40 and I could not find it. I wonder why Castrol sells this oil in Spain, but not across the whole EU.
_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

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#4173518 - 08/10/16 12:14 PM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: volodymyr]
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
Table 6 (5W-30, VW 504/507, mid SAPS)



Pay attention to an oil #6 Mobil 1 ESP FORMULA 5W-30 which has really big amount of zinc 922 ppm and 874 pp of phosphorus. These quantities are more than I can see with some full SAPS oils.
_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

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#4173521 - 08/10/16 12:19 PM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: volodymyr]
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
Table 7 (0W-20, API SN ILSAC GF-5)



Edited by volodymyr (08/10/16 12:31 PM)
_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

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#4173532 - 08/10/16 12:32 PM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: volodymyr]
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
Table 8 (0W-20, API SN ILSAC GF-5)

_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

Top
#4173533 - 08/10/16 12:32 PM Re: VOA tables for mid & full SAPS european oils [Re: volodymyr]
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
Table 9 (0W-30, API SN ILSAC GF-5)

_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

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