^^^^^^^Good catch and that would explain the 10 year old Dex jug FoMoCo spec.
Need Coolant Advice for 2000 Suzuki Motorcycle
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
02SE - thanks for your input and great info because you've actually seen your Busa engine apart.
I didn't see any signs of corrosion in my cooling system either ... even though I let this coolant run go way too long (10 years, but only 2000 miles). I was certain there was going to be some sign of corrosion or scale in the radiator but it was spotless ... see attached photo. Shows how well the Dex-Cool protects from corrosion.
Only thing I saw was some of the tiny bits of black rubber and also what looked like some tiny aluminum shavings. Hard to say where the aluminum shavings came from - most likely the water pump (?). I don't think the aluminum shavings were anything left over from manufacturing because I've changed and flushed the system twice before this change. I'm also wondering if the metal debris might have been abrading on the edges of the rubber sealing material on the head gasket?
Also, I was running "Water Wetter" so I don't know how that reacts with rubber or silicone materials. Water Wetter also has some kind of anti-corrosion additive. Did you ever run Water Wetter?
So did you see any signs at all of degradation on the rubber sealing layer on the head gasket? Also, if you recall, is the material around the circumference of the bores on the head gasket the same as the other rubbery material?
I'm just going to wait and see what Preston says, and if I feel leery about the Dex-Cool and the rubber material on the head gasket I'll just flush the Dex-Cool and go with the Zerex Asian formula in blue ... to match the Busa.
Shavings of aluminum could be from the water pump. Unless they continue, or you have signs of a failing water pump, I wouldn't worry too much about it. But keeping an eye on the cooling system wouldn't be a bad idea. Pulling the water pump is easy on the 'Busa. So it wouldn't be much work to check it out.
Suzuki used black sealant in various areas when assembling the engine. I'd bet on the black bits being small amounts of that sealant which has come loose.
As for Redline Water Wetter, I've used it extensively with distilled water, when running on the track. I've always switched back to regular Prestone Ethylene Glycol OAT anti-freeze, after time at the track, because my bikes live in a climate where well below freezing temps are common during winter.
No degradation of the head gasket was apparent when I pulled the engine apart to rebuild it bigger, stronger, we have the technology.. Sorry, Six Million Dollar Man flashback..
02SE - thanks for your input and great info because you've actually seen your Busa engine apart.
I didn't see any signs of corrosion in my cooling system either ... even though I let this coolant run go way too long (10 years, but only 2000 miles). I was certain there was going to be some sign of corrosion or scale in the radiator but it was spotless ... see attached photo. Shows how well the Dex-Cool protects from corrosion.
Only thing I saw was some of the tiny bits of black rubber and also what looked like some tiny aluminum shavings. Hard to say where the aluminum shavings came from - most likely the water pump (?). I don't think the aluminum shavings were anything left over from manufacturing because I've changed and flushed the system twice before this change. I'm also wondering if the metal debris might have been abrading on the edges of the rubber sealing material on the head gasket?
Also, I was running "Water Wetter" so I don't know how that reacts with rubber or silicone materials. Water Wetter also has some kind of anti-corrosion additive. Did you ever run Water Wetter?
So did you see any signs at all of degradation on the rubber sealing layer on the head gasket? Also, if you recall, is the material around the circumference of the bores on the head gasket the same as the other rubbery material?
I'm just going to wait and see what Preston says, and if I feel leery about the Dex-Cool and the rubber material on the head gasket I'll just flush the Dex-Cool and go with the Zerex Asian formula in blue ... to match the Busa.
Shavings of aluminum could be from the water pump. Unless they continue, or you have signs of a failing water pump, I wouldn't worry too much about it. But keeping an eye on the cooling system wouldn't be a bad idea. Pulling the water pump is easy on the 'Busa. So it wouldn't be much work to check it out.
Suzuki used black sealant in various areas when assembling the engine. I'd bet on the black bits being small amounts of that sealant which has come loose.
As for Redline Water Wetter, I've used it extensively with distilled water, when running on the track. I've always switched back to regular Prestone Ethylene Glycol OAT anti-freeze, after time at the track, because my bikes live in a climate where well below freezing temps are common during winter.
No degradation of the head gasket was apparent when I pulled the engine apart to rebuild it bigger, stronger, we have the technology.. Sorry, Six Million Dollar Man flashback..
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Shavings of aluminum could be from the water pump. Unless they continue, or you have signs of a failing water pump, I wouldn't worry too much about it. But keeping an eye on the cooling system wouldn't be a bad idea. Pulling the water pump is easy on the 'Busa. So it wouldn't be much work to check it out.
Suzuki used black sealant in various areas when assembling the engine. I'd bet on the black bits being small amounts of that sealant which has come loose.
No degradation of the head gasket was apparent when I pulled the engine apart to rebuild it bigger, stronger, we have the technology.. Sorry, Six Million Dollar Man flashback..
I know Suzuki uses RTV type sealant on places like case seams, etc but I can't think of any place it would be in the cooling system except for many the T-stat housing, but I'm betting there's an O-ring there.
As far as the aluminum shavings, I'll just keep a watch on that each time I change the coolant - not too concerned at this point.
If you didn't see any degradation of the rubber sealing layer on your head gasket after running Dex-Cool that long, then that material must be compatible. Only difference, is my Busa has been using Dex-Cool for ~12 years, so has had a longer over-all exposure period.
Shavings of aluminum could be from the water pump. Unless they continue, or you have signs of a failing water pump, I wouldn't worry too much about it. But keeping an eye on the cooling system wouldn't be a bad idea. Pulling the water pump is easy on the 'Busa. So it wouldn't be much work to check it out.
Suzuki used black sealant in various areas when assembling the engine. I'd bet on the black bits being small amounts of that sealant which has come loose.
No degradation of the head gasket was apparent when I pulled the engine apart to rebuild it bigger, stronger, we have the technology.. Sorry, Six Million Dollar Man flashback..
I know Suzuki uses RTV type sealant on places like case seams, etc but I can't think of any place it would be in the cooling system except for many the T-stat housing, but I'm betting there's an O-ring there.
As far as the aluminum shavings, I'll just keep a watch on that each time I change the coolant - not too concerned at this point.
If you didn't see any degradation of the rubber sealing layer on your head gasket after running Dex-Cool that long, then that material must be compatible. Only difference, is my Busa has been using Dex-Cool for ~12 years, so has had a longer over-all exposure period.
So I heard back from Preston this morning about the concern I had with their Dex-Cool in my Hayabusa. Here's their response:
"We are not aware of any properties of that coolant that would have an adverse impact on any head gasket material or other rubber component of the cooling system. Either the DexCool in the grey jug or the standard Prestone Extended Life in the yellow jug would be recommended for use in that application."
Maybe the key word in his response was "adverse". I sounds like he kind of skirted around the concern. I emailed him back and asked if maybe Prestone has changed the formulation some, like decreasing the 2-EHA level since 10 years ago. Will see what he says about that.
I also asked for an MSDS, and of course it does contain "2-Ethyl Hexanoic Acid, Sodium Salt". See snap-shot below.
"We are not aware of any properties of that coolant that would have an adverse impact on any head gasket material or other rubber component of the cooling system. Either the DexCool in the grey jug or the standard Prestone Extended Life in the yellow jug would be recommended for use in that application."
Maybe the key word in his response was "adverse". I sounds like he kind of skirted around the concern. I emailed him back and asked if maybe Prestone has changed the formulation some, like decreasing the 2-EHA level since 10 years ago. Will see what he says about that.
I also asked for an MSDS, and of course it does contain "2-Ethyl Hexanoic Acid, Sodium Salt". See snap-shot below.
As I said, I've been using the Prestone OAT coolants with 2eha, since I changed out the factory coolant. Both in stock and modified engine form. The Water Wetter was only used for track riding, as ethylene glycol is not allowed on track. The water wetter use was a small percentage of overall riding time. My bikes spend most of their time on public roads.
Dexcool gets a bad rep mostly because GM used some poorly designed intake manifold gaskets at one time.
I'm not at all worried about using the Prestone coolant in my bikes. But I wouldn't leave it or any coolant in a vehicle for 5+ years.
Dexcool gets a bad rep mostly because GM used some poorly designed intake manifold gaskets at one time.
I'm not at all worried about using the Prestone coolant in my bikes. But I wouldn't leave it or any coolant in a vehicle for 5+ years.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
As I said, I've been using the Prestone OAT coolants with 2eha, since I changed out the factory coolant. Both in stock and modified engine form. The Water Wetter was only used for track riding, as ethylene glycol is not allowed on track. The water wetter use was a small percentage of overall riding time. My bikes spend most of their time on public roads.
Dexcool gets a bad rep mostly because GM used some poorly designed intake manifold gaskets at one time.
I'm not at all worried about using the Prestone coolant in my bikes. But I wouldn't leave it or any coolant in a vehicle for 5+ years.
I hear ya ... not sure if leaving the Prestone Dex-Cool in for 10 years would have any bearing on possibly harming the cooling system. If so, I'd think there would be other signs like corrosion, etc also going on. Yes, I admit it was left in way too long though, and was frankly surprised I didn't see some major corrosion damage when looking down inside the radiator.
As I said, I've been using the Prestone OAT coolants with 2eha, since I changed out the factory coolant. Both in stock and modified engine form. The Water Wetter was only used for track riding, as ethylene glycol is not allowed on track. The water wetter use was a small percentage of overall riding time. My bikes spend most of their time on public roads.
Dexcool gets a bad rep mostly because GM used some poorly designed intake manifold gaskets at one time.
I'm not at all worried about using the Prestone coolant in my bikes. But I wouldn't leave it or any coolant in a vehicle for 5+ years.
I hear ya ... not sure if leaving the Prestone Dex-Cool in for 10 years would have any bearing on possibly harming the cooling system. If so, I'd think there would be other signs like corrosion, etc also going on. Yes, I admit it was left in way too long though, and was frankly surprised I didn't see some major corrosion damage when looking down inside the radiator.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
..sounds like he kind of skirted around the concern.
That's my read and similar to the answer they gave regarding using then labeled Prestone All Makes Models dexclone in Ford vehicles specing G-05, some time ago. So answer not surprising to me.
As I said in 'That Darn Dex thread, " I'd have no issue using DexCool 'where spec'd' now, especially with pressurized recovery tank and system gaskets and seals etc designed and engineered specifically for DexCool." That is apparently what Ford has done with the gaskets etc. for it newer models. Of course that refers to car applications.
If you want a less concentration of 2eha you can use Prestone Universal dexclone, it has a decreased concentration of 2eha as discussed in THIS recent thread . However, I'd go to an Asian PHOAT or PGL before I'd do that. Just me.
..sounds like he kind of skirted around the concern.
That's my read and similar to the answer they gave regarding using then labeled Prestone All Makes Models dexclone in Ford vehicles specing G-05, some time ago. So answer not surprising to me.
As I said in 'That Darn Dex thread, " I'd have no issue using DexCool 'where spec'd' now, especially with pressurized recovery tank and system gaskets and seals etc designed and engineered specifically for DexCool." That is apparently what Ford has done with the gaskets etc. for it newer models. Of course that refers to car applications.
If you want a less concentration of 2eha you can use Prestone Universal dexclone, it has a decreased concentration of 2eha as discussed in THIS recent thread . However, I'd go to an Asian PHOAT or PGL before I'd do that. Just me.
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
However, I'd go to an Asian PHOAT or PGL before I'd do that. Just me.
Yep, that's my thought too. I think just to be safe I'm going to go with the Zerex Asian coolant ... and in blue color to match the bike.
It won't cost me but $15 to flush it well with distilled water and swap it out. The Zerex Asian sounds like the safer formula to use in this motorcycle. It could be the little bit of tiny rubber particles wasn't anything caused by the Dex-Cool formula, but I don't know for sure so will just go with a non 2-EHA coolant to be sure.
However, I'd go to an Asian PHOAT or PGL before I'd do that. Just me.
Yep, that's my thought too. I think just to be safe I'm going to go with the Zerex Asian coolant ... and in blue color to match the bike.
It won't cost me but $15 to flush it well with distilled water and swap it out. The Zerex Asian sounds like the safer formula to use in this motorcycle. It could be the little bit of tiny rubber particles wasn't anything caused by the Dex-Cool formula, but I don't know for sure so will just go with a non 2-EHA coolant to be sure.
To add if anyone is wondering ... I flushed the cooling system out with distilled water 6 times since I was changing antifreeze formulation. System capacity is only 3 quarts, and I can drain ~95-96% of the system by removing two main hoses.
The photo of the reservoir tank is after the engine was at full temperature, so the coolant rises that much from the "Full" mark between being cold and hot.
The photo of the reservoir tank is after the engine was at full temperature, so the coolant rises that much from the "Full" mark between being cold and hot.
Only 2,000 miles in 10 years! For shame! I'm a little chagrined I've only put 13k on my VFR800 in the 4 years I've owned it. As I haven't ever changed the coolant myself it's time and Zerex Asian blue is what I'll be using. 70k on the odometer and still a great ride!
Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
Only 2,000 miles in 10 years! For shame! I'm a little chagrined I've only put 13k on my VFR800 in the 4 years I've owned it. As I haven't ever changed the coolant myself it's time and Zerex Asian blue is what I'll be using. 70k on the odometer and still a great ride!
Yes, the poor Busa has really been ignored a lot for the last few years out of those 10. Busy career and other things going on all the time it seems. But it will get out a lot more now after I get some things taken care of on it. Yes, go with the Zerex Asian formula. Even though the Dex-Cool probably didn't really harm anything, I feel better with the Asian formula in the cooling system on this bike.
Only 2,000 miles in 10 years! For shame! I'm a little chagrined I've only put 13k on my VFR800 in the 4 years I've owned it. As I haven't ever changed the coolant myself it's time and Zerex Asian blue is what I'll be using. 70k on the odometer and still a great ride!
Yes, the poor Busa has really been ignored a lot for the last few years out of those 10. Busy career and other things going on all the time it seems. But it will get out a lot more now after I get some things taken care of on it. Yes, go with the Zerex Asian formula. Even though the Dex-Cool probably didn't really harm anything, I feel better with the Asian formula in the cooling system on this bike.
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