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#4162044 - 07/26/16 10:52 PM "Creaking" Conti DWS's?
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 2323
Loc: Canada
On the Focus in my sig, I've been chasing down a faint rubbing sound in the front end (at least that's where I thought it was).

During the past month or so, I resorted to replacing BOTH front wheel bearing assemblies (I'm sure some of you remember my issues with the bearings etc).

Even after picking up the car from the shop, I could still hear a "rubbing" sound from inside the car.
I thought it might be the backing plate for the front rotors rubbing up against the disks, but the Focus doesn't have backing plates.

My gf and I have noticed that when you drive the car more frequently and everything is "warmed up", the noise seems to go away.
Only when doing sharp turns does it seem to come back. Regardless, I shouldn't have to wait for my tires to "warm up" for mysterious noises to go away.

For the past couple of days I left the car in the "coolish" garage and took the bike to work (It's underground).
This evening I put the car into neutral (on level ground) and dropped the ebrake and rolled the car back and forth. I noticed this "creaking" sound coming from a couple/few of the tires. This is the same sound I noticed previously when driving the car at low speeds when the tires were still cool.

I also removed the front tires and spun the hub and noticed nothing out of the ordinary that might be causing the noise.

I inspected the tires and three have a date code of 2209 and the other 2309.
I currently have about 55,000 kms (about 35,000 miles)on them.
The "DWS" is still fully visible, but I can tell that the "s" is getting kinda thin frown

Are they finished? I don't track the car, nor does it get the "extreme" heat and cold of the prairies.
But I must admit, that creaking sound is VERY annoying!

thanks in advance



_________________________
06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
03 Suzuki SV650S- One night stand

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#4162056 - 07/26/16 11:09 PM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Lolvoguy]
Nick1994 Offline


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 10097
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Stock size wheels and tires?

Any chance the sound is coming from the rear?
_________________________
2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 79k PU 5w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 228k M1 AFE 0w30 & Wix
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 146k M1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra

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#4162073 - 07/26/16 11:41 PM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Lolvoguy]
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 2323
Loc: Canada
Everything stock (wheels, tires, suspension).
Car only has 93k miles.

The only way I can explain the sound, is that it's similar to a creaking rocking chair, or an elastic band being stretched beyond it's capacity. No metallic or other sounds. Definetly a rubbery sound.

Nope, not the rear. when I was rolling the car back and forth, I had the hood up and was pushing/pulling the car forwards and backwards from the front end support.

The only other thing I thing it may be is the engine mount(s). I've replaced the main hydraulic one at the front that often goes out. Now I have the trans and thrust bushings on order as well. Then again, the engine isn't running when I hear this noise....

The only other thing that may be causing the noise is a couple of summers ago when I hit a concrete barrier (head-on) with the passenger front tire. There was no alignment issues, wheel damage but since I've already replaced the front wheel bearings, I can't think of anything else :?

_________________________
06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
03 Suzuki SV650S- One night stand

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#4162230 - 07/27/16 08:32 AM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Lolvoguy]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 6170
Loc: North Coast
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy

The only other thing that may be causing the noise is a couple of summers ago when I hit a concrete barrier (head-on) with the passenger front tire. There was no alignment issues, wheel damage but since I've already replaced the front wheel bearings, I can't think of anything else :?



broken tier belt? squeaky of broken rubber component in the front end? loose strut?


Edited by Doog (07/27/16 08:33 AM)
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#4162235 - 07/27/16 08:40 AM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Lolvoguy]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 9090
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I've had mountain bike slick tires that made some strange noise until the mold release compound wore off, so rubber tires can make some weird noises at times... Go to a parking lot and try to rip the tread off the fronts(do a few circles with alot of understeer), if nothing else it will disrupt the smooth tread surface and maybe solve the problem.
_________________________
07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 206km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 5km FF

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#4162278 - 07/27/16 09:37 AM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Doog]
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 2323
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy

The only other thing that may be causing the noise is a couple of summers ago when I hit a concrete barrier (head-on) with the passenger front tire. There was no alignment issues, wheel damage but since I've already replaced the front wheel bearings, I can't think of anything else :?



broken tier belt? squeaky of broken rubber component in the front end? loose strut?


Well, I have the remaining two engine mounts on order from Rockauto (both rubber). Hopefully that will solve this issue.

Last night I tried playing with the rolling trick again, and it seems like whenever initially START rolling the car, do i get the noise. It's not rhythmic so it's not a certain point on the tire(s). When the car comes to rest against a wooden block I've placed behind the one wheel, I hear a slight "clunk" from the engine compartment. This leads me to think that the engine mount(s) have failed.

thanks for the reply
_________________________
06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
03 Suzuki SV650S- One night stand

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#4162279 - 07/27/16 09:38 AM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: IndyIan]
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 2323
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I've had mountain bike slick tires that made some strange noise until the mold release compound wore off, so rubber tires can make some weird noises at times... Go to a parking lot and try to rip the tread off the fronts(do a few circles with alot of understeer), if nothing else it will disrupt the smooth tread surface and maybe solve the problem.


hmm, worth a try. Thanks

How did the alternator replacement go on your Focus?
I pray everyday that mine keeps lasting just a little bit longer. I think mine might be the original unit with 149k
_________________________
06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
03 Suzuki SV650S- One night stand

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#4162287 - 07/27/16 09:48 AM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Lolvoguy]
CapriRacer Online   content


Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3366
Loc: Somewhere in the US
Lolvoguy,

Look very closely at the interface between the wheel and the tire - that is the flange area of the wheel where the tire wraps over the edge. Do you see bits of metal, like a fine dust?

If so, then my old friend is back. Allow me to explain.

From time to time (when I was working), I would receive a series of complaints about a tire noise that sounded like crunching. The complaints were all from one vehicle that we were supplying tires to. Now if you know about how tire manufacturers supply tires to vehicle manufacturers, you'll know that we design a tire for a specific make and model of car (truck) in a given size, so if we get complaints on one size and tire model, we pretty much know it is all coming from one make and model of car.

It turned out the tire was rubbing on the wheel and actually abrading the alloy off the flange of the wheels. You would think that soft rubber wouldn't be able to do that, but that is not the case. The metal would sit on the space between the tire and the wheel and after some time would accumulate enough to create this odd noise.

If I recall correctly, this was always on tires with rim flange protectors - those protrusions near the bead the stick out further then the rim flange to protect it from the curbs - BUT - the actual abrasion was taking place in an area that is common for tires with and without rim flange protectors. I suspect that without the rim flange protectors, the dust was blown away by the amount of wind a car generates - in contrast to the rim flange protector which sheltered that area.

It should be noted that that area of the tires was the same for EVERY tire we made for DECADES!! - and we only received a small number of complaints every couple of years and the group of complaints was always from the same make and model of car, but a different make and model car every 3 or 4 years apart. Never the same make and model of car. We didn't receive any complaints from any of the other make and models of cars (and tire size and model) out of the literally a hundred of other tires we supplied to car manufacturers - just the one. Oh, and I should mention that we would receive a smattering of a single complaints from time to time from isolated sources, with no pattern discernible - other than this OE source.

I always attributed this to the heat treatment of the alloy (or lack there of) as there never seemed to be any commonality as to tire or wheel.

Oh and it was always alloy wheels - never steel wheels!

If you would be so kind as to look and post back with your findings.
_________________________
CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com

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#4162305 - 07/27/16 10:05 AM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Lolvoguy]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 9090
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I've had mountain bike slick tires that made some strange noise until the mold release compound wore off, so rubber tires can make some weird noises at times... Go to a parking lot and try to rip the tread off the fronts(do a few circles with alot of understeer), if nothing else it will disrupt the smooth tread surface and maybe solve the problem.


hmm, worth a try. Thanks

How did the alternator replacement go on your Focus?
I pray everyday that mine keeps lasting just a little bit longer. I think mine might be the original unit with 149k

I had my regular mechanic shop do it. $135 to install wasn't too bad at all. They almost didn't replace the alternator as it kept testing good even after running it against the dying battery to get home for quite a while, but eventually it started showing low voltage output with the new charged battery.
I should have had my battery tested/replaced before as it seemed a bit weak after some relatively mild discharges... Keep a good battery in there and it will probably go along time.
_________________________
07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 206km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 5km FF

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#4162393 - 07/27/16 11:58 AM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: CapriRacer]
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 2323
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Lolvoguy,

Look very closely at the interface between the wheel and the tire - that is the flange area of the wheel where the tire wraps over the edge. Do you see bits of metal, like a fine dust?

If so, then my old friend is back. Allow me to explain.

From time to time (when I was working), I would receive a series of complaints about a tire noise that sounded like crunching. The complaints were all from one vehicle that we were supplying tires to. Now if you know about how tire manufacturers supply tires to vehicle manufacturers, you'll know that we design a tire for a specific make and model of car (truck) in a given size, so if we get complaints on one size and tire model, we pretty much know it is all coming from one make and model of car.

It turned out the tire was rubbing on the wheel and actually abrading the alloy off the flange of the wheels. You would think that soft rubber wouldn't be able to do that, but that is not the case. The metal would sit on the space between the tire and the wheel and after some time would accumulate enough to create this odd noise.

If I recall correctly, this was always on tires with rim flange protectors - those protrusions near the bead the stick out further then the rim flange to protect it from the curbs - BUT - the actual abrasion was taking place in an area that is common for tires with and without rim flange protectors. I suspect that without the rim flange protectors, the dust was blown away by the amount of wind a car generates - in contrast to the rim flange protector which sheltered that area.

It should be noted that that area of the tires was the same for EVERY tire we made for DECADES!! - and we only received a small number of complaints every couple of years and the group of complaints was always from the same make and model of car, but a different make and model car every 3 or 4 years apart. Never the same make and model of car. We didn't receive any complaints from any of the other make and models of cars (and tire size and model) out of the literally a hundred of other tires we supplied to car manufacturers - just the one. Oh, and I should mention that we would receive a smattering of a single complaints from time to time from isolated sources, with no pattern discernible - other than this OE source.

I always attributed this to the heat treatment of the alloy (or lack there of) as there never seemed to be any commonality as to tire or wheel.

Oh and it was always alloy wheels - never steel wheels!

If you would be so kind as to look and post back with your findings.



Thanks for your reply CapriRacer smile

Honestly, this makes a lot of sense. I've noticed that the noise seems to kind of "go away" when the weather is wet (rain for several days).

I'll check it out when I get home tonight and report back!
_________________________
06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
03 Suzuki SV650S- One night stand

Top
#4162486 - 07/27/16 01:39 PM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Lolvoguy]
Fsharp Offline


Registered: 12/11/15
Posts: 408
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
When the car comes to rest against a wooden block I've placed behind the one wheel, I hear a slight "clunk" from the engine compartment. This leads me to think that the engine mount(s) have failed.

thanks for the reply


If the car is in neutral when you roll it, why would it cause the engine to move enough to make a clunking sound even if one of the engine mounts is bad?

If it's only a couple of the tires maybe you could rotate them to see if the noise seems to "stay" with the same tires.

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#4162570 - 07/27/16 03:21 PM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Fsharp]
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 2323
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Fsharp
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
When the car comes to rest against a wooden block I've placed behind the one wheel, I hear a slight "clunk" from the engine compartment. This leads me to think that the engine mount(s) have failed.

thanks for the reply


If the car is in neutral when you roll it, why would it cause the engine to move enough to make a clunking sound even if one of the engine mounts is bad?

If it's only a couple of the tires maybe you could rotate them to see if the noise seems to "stay" with the same tires.


Maybe the engine mount is that bad enough that it rocks slightly when the car is forced to stop against the wooden block?

I agree, that was my next plan of action
_________________________
06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
03 Suzuki SV650S- One night stand

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#4162577 - 07/27/16 03:25 PM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Lolvoguy]
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 2323
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Lolvoguy,

Look very closely at the interface between the wheel and the tire - that is the flange area of the wheel where the tire wraps over the edge. Do you see bits of metal, like a fine dust?

If so, then my old friend is back. Allow me to explain.

From time to time (when I was working), I would receive a series of complaints about a tire noise that sounded like crunching. The complaints were all from one vehicle that we were supplying tires to. Now if you know about how tire manufacturers supply tires to vehicle manufacturers, you'll know that we design a tire for a specific make and model of car (truck) in a given size, so if we get complaints on one size and tire model, we pretty much know it is all coming from one make and model of car.

It turned out the tire was rubbing on the wheel and actually abrading the alloy off the flange of the wheels. You would think that soft rubber wouldn't be able to do that, but that is not the case. The metal would sit on the space between the tire and the wheel and after some time would accumulate enough to create this odd noise.

If I recall correctly, this was always on tires with rim flange protectors - those protrusions near the bead the stick out further then the rim flange to protect it from the curbs - BUT - the actual abrasion was taking place in an area that is common for tires with and without rim flange protectors. I suspect that without the rim flange protectors, the dust was blown away by the amount of wind a car generates - in contrast to the rim flange protector which sheltered that area.

It should be noted that that area of the tires was the same for EVERY tire we made for DECADES!! - and we only received a small number of complaints every couple of years and the group of complaints was always from the same make and model of car, but a different make and model car every 3 or 4 years apart. Never the same make and model of car. We didn't receive any complaints from any of the other make and models of cars (and tire size and model) out of the literally a hundred of other tires we supplied to car manufacturers - just the one. Oh, and I should mention that we would receive a smattering of a single complaints from time to time from isolated sources, with no pattern discernible - other than this OE source.

I always attributed this to the heat treatment of the alloy (or lack there of) as there never seemed to be any commonality as to tire or wheel.

Oh and it was always alloy wheels - never steel wheels!

If you would be so kind as to look and post back with your findings.



Thanks for your reply CapriRacer smile

Honestly, this makes a lot of sense. I've noticed that the noise seems to kind of "go away" when the weather is wet (rain for several days).

I'll check it out when I get home tonight and report back!



Just got back from Lunch. GF had the car so i met up with her for a bite.

Checked the wheels where the noise is coming from and no dusty/metallic substance around the wheel/tire edge. There's also no "lip" on these tires to protect the wheel in case I get a little too close to a curb when parking smirk

Going to try the rotation idea when I change the motor mounts. Hopefully there will be some change
_________________________
06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
03 Suzuki SV650S- One night stand

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#4168365 - 08/03/16 06:28 PM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Lolvoguy]
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 2323
Loc: Canada
Decided to take the car into the shop that mounted the tires. I had them remove the wheels from the tires, clean the mating surfaces, and re-mount the tires.

OH BOY! my noise is TOTALLY GONE! This car is sooo much quieter now!
I honestly didn't think that that was the cause, but sure enough, it was just the beading that was (possibly) cracking/drying out over time. I think there are far more vehicles with this issue that ends up being misdiagnosed as bad tires and the owners just end up replacing them with new ones.

If anyone has any questions, please PM me banana
_________________________
06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
03 Suzuki SV650S- One night stand

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#4168557 - 08/03/16 11:19 PM Re: "Creaking" Conti DWS's? [Re: Lolvoguy]
CapriRacer Online   content


Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3366
Loc: Somewhere in the US
I hate to tell you this, but my experience with this kind of problem says it will be back.
_________________________
CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com

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