Car audio gurus chime in

[grampi]

I'm looking to set up a rather unconventional sound system in my car. Years ago I was into high end car audio in a pretty big way. I haven't had any high end stuff in any of my vehicles for quite some time now because it's just gotten too hard for me to crawl around in car interiors and trunks to run wiring now that I'm getting older.

I love the sound of the ear buds that plug into my smart phone, but it lacks low frequency punch. As you know, a car interior is not a good acoustic environment, and achieving proper sound staging, and stereo separation is difficult, if not impossible with car speakers. I was never able to achieve the sound you get from a set of head phones/ear buds from car speakers. One thing a car interior is good for is low frequencies...bass!!! So I got an idea...why not get my mids and highs from my ear buds, and install a pair of subs for the bass I want? But the question is how to do it?

The head unit in my car has blue tooth, but when I have my phone set to blue tooth, it cuts off the output to the head phone jack. What I'll have to do is plug in a "Y" cable to my phone and plug in the ear buds to one connector, and plug the other to the "AUX IN" on my car's HU.

I already have an amp, a pair of 10" subs, and a sealed enclosure. The amp is an Alpine MRV-F545 and the subs are Tidal Audios. The amp is quite powerful and is rated at 125 watts X 4 into 4 ohms, or 250 X 4 into 2 ohms. I'm going to replace the subs for a couple of reasons...1) I don't think they have dual voice coils and I don't think they can handle the power of this amp and 2) I don't care for the sound of them...they are kind of boomy sounding, which I don't like...I like tight, punchy sounding bass.

The subs I'm looking to purchase are the Sundown E10 V.3 D2...I had a set of the V.1s and they sounded fantastic while they lasted...they weren't beefy enough to handle this amp and I knew they weren't, but they were given to me so I thought I would give them a try. The V.3s are rated for 500 watts RMS, so they should be able to handle this amp. They have dual 2 ohm voice coils.

I will have to run 2 sets of RCA cables from my HU to the sub amp (in the trunk), plus a remote turn-on wire. I will also have to run a power cable from the battery back to the amp, but this brings up a couple other questions. I don't know what size fuse/breaker I need to put in the power line for the amp as I didn't see this listed anywhere in the owner's manual, and I have no idea how much current the amp will draw, and I don't know how much amperage my car's stock alternator is rated for (2004 Corolla). I don't anticipate ever running the amp hard enough to even be close to putting out full power, but still, this amp could pull a substantial amount of amperage from my car's electrical system. Do any of you know how I could out what size fuse I need to put in the power lead, and how I could figure out what my car's alternator is rated at?

 

[Nick1994]

There's a lot of people on here that will gripe with keeping it stock, because of the negative electrical effects from the large stereo system.

I don't see how headphones and subwoofers will work, I think if you get some good speakers and an amp for them it'll sound good.

 

[RF Overlord]

A car's passenger cabin is not a good place to make tight, accurate bass. The wavelength at 50Hz is over 22 feet and at 20Hz is over 56 feet. Any frequency below about 112Hz will generate room modes that will make the bass thin or boomy, depending on the exact frequency and where you sit. This is one reason so many car stereos with twin 15" sub woofers and kilowatt amps make that awful boomy one-note bass.

 

[exranger06]

It's illegal in most areas to drive with headphones on because you can't hear car horns or sirens.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
It's illegal in most areas to drive with headphones on because you can't hear car horns or sirens.


Thanks for the law lesson, but I believe ear buds are legal because they don't completely cover the ears...let's stick to the audio discussion...

 

[barkingspider]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
It's illegal in most areas to drive with headphones on because you can't hear car horns or sirens.


This. Plus it's just unsafe

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
A car's passenger cabin is not a good place to make tight, accurate bass. The wavelength at 50Hz is over 22 feet and at 20Hz is over 56 feet. Any frequency below about 112Hz will generate room modes that will make the bass thin or boomy, depending on the exact frequency and where you sit. This is one reason so many car stereos with twin 15" sub woofers and kilowatt amps make that awful boomy one-note bass.


I disagree. I've had systems in the past in my vehicles that produced wonderful sounding bass...it's about matching the subs up with the enclosure and the proper crossover frequency...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
There's a lot of people on here that will gripe with keeping it stock, because of the negative electrical effects from the large stereo system.

I don't see how headphones and subwoofers will work, I think if you get some good speakers and an amp for them it'll sound good.

I may not be able to keep the stock alternator with this amp as it may draw too much current...if I remember correctly I think the alternator in my last Corolla was rated at 100 amps...this one might be the same or a little more...

 

[Jimmy9190]

Your alternator is probably somewhere around 100 amps, give or take a few. You can check online or call a Toyota dealer to find out for sure. Your amp has four 20-amp fuses so it will draw a lot of current at higher volume, probably at least 60 amps at sustained high volume. Lower volume will draw less current. It will be best to wire it with at least 4 gauge power and ground wire and fuse it at 80 amps with an inline fuse as close as possible and no more than 12 inches away from the positive battery terminal. There are wire kits you can buy for that type of installation and current draw, just be sure the wire you get is oxygen-free copper, not the cheaper smaller and less efficient copper coated aluminum. These days real copper wire can be expensive but is well worth it. Also be sure the wire really is 4 gauge and not 6 or 8 gauge with thicker insulation to make it look like 4 gauge.

The main thing to consider here is to check your local and state laws because it may be illegal to drive with earbuds in your ears. It may not be very safe to drive with your ear buds in place either, unless the volume is low to moderate. It might be better to just use good quality components and sound dampening for the mids and highs. As for the bass response, you can achieve a tight, punchy musical low end in your car. It is best to use a sealed enclosure with a good 10 or 12 inch sub and give it as much power as you can afford and your electrical system can produce. It will be even better if your sub amp has a bass boost somewhere around 45 hz with a remote-mounted bass level control knob so you can fine-tune the bass as needed. Cross the midranges over around 100 to 120 hz for higher sound pressure with less distortion.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Your alternator is probably somewhere around 100 amps, give or take a few. You can check online or call a Toyota dealer to find out for sure. Your amp has four 20-amp fuses so it will draw a lot of current at higher volume, probably at least 60 amps at sustained high volume. Lower volume will draw less current. It will be best to wire it with at least 4 gauge power and ground wire and fuse it at 80 amps with an inline fuse as close as possible and no more than 12 inches away from the positive battery terminal. There are wire kits you can buy for that type of installation and current draw, just be sure the wire you get is oxygen-free copper, not the cheaper smaller and less efficient copper coated aluminum. These days real copper wire can be expensive but is well worth it. Also be sure the wire really is 4 gauge and not 6 or 8 gauge with thicker insulation to make it look like 4 gauge.

The main thing to consider here is to check your local and state laws because it may be illegal to drive with earbuds in your ears. It may not be very safe to drive with your ear buds in place either, unless the volume is low to moderate. It might be better to just use good quality components and sound dampening for the mids and highs. As for the bass response, you can achieve a tight, punchy musical low end in your car. It is best to use a sealed enclosure with a good 10 or 12 inch sub and give it as much power as you can afford and your electrical system can produce. It will be even better if your sub amp has a bass boost somewhere around 45 hz with a remote-mounted bass level control knob so you can fine-tune the bass as needed. Cross the midranges over around 100 to 120 hz for higher sound pressure with less distortion.


I don't want to go back to my "old days" where I was big time into the car audio scene. If I install mids and tweets, that means replacing the factory speakers, running heavier gauge speaker wire, spending more money, etc...in other words, it would require a lot more money, time, and would be much harder to install. I can install a sub and an amp in a couple of hours and be done with it...AND have better quality sound using ear buds. I do have a sealed enclosure for two 10s, and basically my HU's volume control will be the volume control for the subs, since that's all it will be controlling.

 

[grampi]

Also, I was going to run 2 gauge power wire, but it looks like the largest gauge the terminal block on the amp will accept is 4 gauge....

 

[SatinSilver]

What type of music is this for mostly?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
What type of music is this for mostly?


My music library is a mix of 60s, 70s, 80s pop, and 90s country...

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: grampi
it's about matching the subs up with the enclosure and the proper crossover frequency...
Agreed, those things are necessary to make decent bass.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: grampi
it's about matching the subs up with the enclosure and the proper crossover frequency...
Agreed, those things are necessary to make decent bass.


Along with facing the subs the right way. When I put the enclosure in my last car (in the trunk), I had the subs facing the front of he car. I turned it around so they were facing the rear, and it about doubled the output...

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
A car's passenger cabin is not a good place to make tight, accurate bass. The wavelength at 50Hz is over 22 feet and at 20Hz is over 56 feet. Any frequency below about 112Hz will generate room modes that will make the bass thin or boomy, depending on the exact frequency and where you sit. This is one reason so many car stereos with twin 15" sub woofers and kilowatt amps make that awful boomy one-note bass.


Truth has been spoken here. You can throw enough money and enough power at the problem to get something passable; but you're still putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Also, I was going to run 2 gauge power wire, but it looks like the largest gauge the terminal block on the amp will accept is 4 gauge....


There are adapters you can buy to change the wire size at the amp and allow the use of larger power and ground wire. Here is one for 1/0 to 4 gauge but it would also work with 2 gauge:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_46119_Stinger-SPT521.html

Or you could use a 2 gauge distribution block and just do a short run of 4 gauge to the amp:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_73780_Stinger-SHD20.html

 

[mr_boring]

Tweeters. Cheap and easy.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
A car's passenger cabin is not a good place to make tight, accurate bass. The wavelength at 50Hz is over 22 feet and at 20Hz is over 56 feet. Any frequency below about 112Hz will generate room modes that will make the bass thin or boomy, depending on the exact frequency and where you sit. This is one reason so many car stereos with twin 15" sub woofers and kilowatt amps make that awful boomy one-note bass.


Truth has been spoken here. You can throw enough money and enough power at the problem to get something passable; but you're still putting lipstick on a pig.


Maybe you missed my earlier post, but I've had subs in the past that produced such tight, punchy bass, you wouldn't believe it unless you heard it, but it wasn't with 15" drivers, it was with 10s, and they were always in sealed enclosures...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: mr_boring
Tweeters. Cheap and easy.


And they're also finicky about where they're installed and aimed, and no matter how hard you try, you're still never going to get the sound stage or imaging right...ear buds do all of that for you...