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The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) #4132452
06/23/16 05:12 AM
06/23/16 05:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline OP
userfriendly  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
Delo 400 SAE 20
KV40C 61
KV100C 8.5
HTHS >2.9 approx.
P .069
Z .076
SA .95
Flash 236C
This engine oil would likely pass 10W cold performance, therefore be labeled 10W20.

Comparable 0w20 and 5W20 engine oils with KV100C of 8.5 typically have 2.7 HTHS.
If a mono-grade SAE20 was blended to the grade maximum of 9.3/KV100C, HTHS would be approximately 3.1

For engines that are designed to run on XW20 engine oil and operating in moderate to very hot climates, low saps SAE20 is an option to consider.



Last edited by userfriendly; 06/23/16 05:16 AM.
Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4132502
06/23/16 07:00 AM
06/23/16 07:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,341
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,341
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Not sure the 20 has a gasoline engine rating, the 30 (which I've used a lot of from the days when AZ was blowing it out for 99 cents/gallon) has SJ, which is still older than most of the 5W20 recommended engines. It probably wouldn't hurt anything, but the 6.4 TBN is pretty low too.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4132507
06/23/16 07:03 AM
06/23/16 07:03 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 675
Alabama
Justin251 Offline
Justin251  Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 675
Alabama
Add pack? Guess we need a voa now.


2014 Ram 5.7 PUPPP 5w20 ultra
2015 Tuscon 2.4 PP 5w20 wix
1996 Ranger 4.0 SuperS 5w30 wix
1989 formula 5.0
Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4132539
06/23/16 07:47 AM
06/23/16 07:47 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
P and Z are there.
If I liked chevron - No I wouldn't try it in a OC app. the KV40 is too high for short trippers - Just a 10w30 missing some VMs and some ppd.

On second though good choice for ford fleet trucks.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4132543
06/23/16 07:53 AM
06/23/16 07:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline OP
userfriendly  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
The pds states mixed fleet Diesel and gasoline.
I don't imagine they are referring to old fleets.
The add pack published looks current enough.
TBN retention is as important as the starting point.

http://chevronlubricants.com/

Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4132566
06/23/16 08:15 AM
06/23/16 08:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline OP
userfriendly  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
If a HTHS of 2.7 satisfied the needs of the engine,
a 50/50 mix of Delo SAE10 and SAE20 would be close to this:

KV40C 52
KV100C 7.7
HTHS >2.7


By mixing 12% SAE 50 with 88% SAE20, we end up at the KV100C maximum for SAE20:

KV40C 70
KV100C 9.3
HTHS > 3.1

Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4132587
06/23/16 08:41 AM
06/23/16 08:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 298
European Union
Atesz792 Offline
Atesz792  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 298
European Union
Now just imagine someone who wants to use xW-20 pouring SAE 50 into their engine.


2004 Suzuki GS500F
2006 Renault Mégane 1.5 dci
Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4132691
06/23/16 10:19 AM
06/23/16 10:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline OP
userfriendly  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
If the ambient was above 5C/40F, I wouldn't worry about the presumed loss of fuel economy.

50/50 SAE20 and SAE50 brings the Delo 400 mix up to the SAE30 max of 12.5 KV100C

KV40C 110
KV100C 12.5
HTHS 3.9

A mono-grade is just as likely to thicken out of grade as thin with age.
Does the above illustration show a need for a SAE35 grade, or a change to stay in grade rules?

Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4132843
06/23/16 12:50 PM
06/23/16 12:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,786
Arizona
bulwnkl Offline
bulwnkl  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,786
Arizona
I worked with RLI to design a custom-made SAE20 bio-syn lube for my fleet at my previous location. We had an array of Fords, Dodges, and Chevys, and the product worked extremely well!

If you're willing to buy a few drums, or a shuttle, at a time, they may be willing to make you some.

Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4132958
06/23/16 03:00 PM
06/23/16 03:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline OP
userfriendly  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
The new SAE12 grade has a maximum KV100C of 7.1 and minimum HTHS of 2.0

Delo 400 SAE10W
KV40C 45
KV100C 7.0
HTHS 2.5-2.6 approx.

This engine oil could be labeled SAE 10W12 or SAE 5W12 if it passed 5W.

The new SAE16 has a maximum KV100C of 8.2 and minimum HTHS of 2.3
A mono-grade SAE 16 could have a HTHS of 2.8-2.9 and labeled 15W16 or 10W16 depending on it's cold performance.

The best aspect of the new SAE 12 and 16 grades, is that they are $3.00-$4.00 USD/qt and available in 5 gallon pails.

Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4162120
07/27/16 02:21 AM
07/27/16 02:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline OP
userfriendly  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
5w16 will be GF-6 exempt.
Fuel economy improvements are achieved by dropping HTHS. Is there corresponding economy gain from lowering KV100C?
To find out, drop one and not the other then compare results against a base-line engine oil.

KV40C 45
KV100C 7.0
HTHS >2.5

Above, a 10W12 with 0W20 HTHS. The engine oil is a fully formulated commercial product, Delo 400 SAE10.
Maybe the name should be changed to GELO 400.

Last edited by userfriendly; 07/27/16 02:24 AM.
Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4162128
07/27/16 03:20 AM
07/27/16 03:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline OP
userfriendly  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
In addition to reduce viscosity, engine oil formulated for fuel economy improvements are modified to reduce friction, where as lubricants for drivetrain applications may be friction enhanced. Oronite released a video about friction modified HDEOs for fuel economy improvements, mentioning new additive technology.
This is what a patent application from 2008 looks like;

https://www.google.hn/patents/US9029304

Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4162135
07/27/16 03:39 AM
07/27/16 03:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,267
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,267
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
5w16 will be GF-6 exempt.

In what way? Any formulator can make any grade they like and choose not to certify it to anything, or only certain specifications. Red Line's multigrade 20s certainly have no ILSAC approval, for instance. So, will 5w-16 simply be unable to be certified ILSAC, or are oil companies pondering the grade simply not bothering with ILSAC, because 0w-16 is more likely to be the OEM pick?


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4162150
07/27/16 04:20 AM
07/27/16 04:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline OP
userfriendly  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,772
BC, Canada
Correct, exempt meaning that 5w16 will not be included in GF-6, but 0W16 will.

I found this information on Diesel engine fuel economy oil additive technology;

https://www.google.hn/patents/WO2012134763A2?cl=en

Last edited by userfriendly; 07/27/16 04:23 AM.
Re: The best XW20 is a mono-grade (!) [Re: userfriendly] #4162154
07/27/16 04:35 AM
07/27/16 04:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,230
Europe
SonofJoe Offline
SonofJoe  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,230
Europe
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Delo 400 SAE 20
KV40C 61
KV100C 8.5
HTHS >2.9 approx.
P .069
Z .076
SA .95
Flash 236C
This engine oil would likely pass 10W cold performance, therefore be labeled 10W20.

Comparable 0w20 and 5W20 engine oils with KV100C of 8.5 typically have 2.7 HTHS.
If a mono-grade SAE20 was blended to the grade maximum of 9.3/KV100C, HTHS would be approximately 3.1

For engines that are designed to run on XW20 engine oil and operating in moderate to very hot climates, low saps SAE20 is an option to consider.





Sorry, but this Delo 400 SAE 20 is a 15W20, not a 10W20. This may be a VII-free mono-grade but it's primarily a diesel oil so will contain a goodly amount of ashless dispersant for soot handling. This really pushes up your CCS.
The trick with a gasoline 10W20 would be to throttle back on the ashless, go semi-synthetic and load up on AW/AO to get a low Noack oil that lasts for ages and is changed well before it's close to sludging out.

Last edited by SonofJoe; 07/27/16 04:37 AM.
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