Recent Topics
Bicycle pump hose broke
by Kestas
1 minute 50 seconds ago
2000 4.0 Grand Cherokee
by jeep58
6 minutes 45 seconds ago
MMO in a pinch?
by Camprunner
8 minutes 39 seconds ago
High LTFT at idle, no vac leak
by KeMBro2012
49 minutes 12 seconds ago
Valvoline-Factory fill?
by Joeescape63
Today at 05:53 PM
Is CVT additive RIGHT FOR ME?
by Vern_in_IL
Today at 05:19 PM
'07 Accord 4cyl - Valvoline FS w/ML D1G2 - 7,021 miles
by crazy_raccoon
Today at 04:50 PM
ConocoPhilips Reaches Payment Agreement With PDVSA
by Nyogtha
Today at 04:46 PM
Andeavor Dickinson, ND Refinery Converting to Biofuels (mayb3
by Nyogtha
Today at 04:35 PM
Clamptite Tool For Fabricating Hose Clamps.
by George7941
Today at 04:25 PM
Would you leave a dealership for an independent shop?
by cb_13
Today at 04:08 PM
Formula Shell 10W-30 conventional--Walmar
t--$28.50 per 12 qt

by BigD1
Today at 02:05 PM
Oil For Tight 289 Rebuild
by Lynniecee
Today at 12:55 PM
FUEL ADDITIVES: MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
by jrcowboys
Today at 12:43 PM
Valvoline 75W-90 Gear Oil - 1qt (Case of 12) $48
by hatt
Today at 12:31 PM
Balancing options on MG Midget
by Dave Sherman
Today at 11:54 AM
Talk About Bad Drivers !
by billt460
Today at 11:40 AM
House question
by supton
Today at 11:23 AM
15W-40 Delvac 6374 miles 97 Maxima
by zorobabel
Today at 11:05 AM
2013 Ford Fiesta first UOA
by Spectre32
Today at 10:41 AM
Newest Members
CHHBadkarma, Lynniecee, KeithSalmon, Camaro_Noah, Climb2FL350
65755 Registered Users
Who's Online
102 registered (aquariuscsm, 2015_PSD, alarmguy, 1JZ_E46, andyd, 12 invisible), 1794 Guests and 31 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65755 Members
67 Forums
289039 Topics
4820862 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#4117020 - 06/06/16 04:06 PM BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil
Spooled Offline


Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 26
Loc: OR
I ride a 2007 BMW R1200RT and decided to try BMW's new Advantec 15W50 made by Shell. It is sold in 1 litre blue bottles at BMW motorcycle dealers. Here is a VOA on it. I intentionally didn't give Blackstone the brand and weight of the oil, just to see what they came up with for the weight. They got it right.


Edited by Spooled (06/06/16 04:06 PM)

Top
#4117128 - 06/06/16 06:05 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: Spooled]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 4175
Loc: Midwest USA
Not much zddp and phos for a bike oil, is it API SL ?
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QS HM 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)

Top
#4117177 - 06/06/16 07:09 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: Spooled]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11517
Loc: Idaho
I hope the oil is sold at auto parts store prices. M1 seems a better product.
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf

Top
#4117254 - 06/06/16 08:16 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: Spooled]
Spooled Offline


Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 26
Loc: OR
It is SM / MA2 rated. It is definitely not sold at "auto store" prices. Is Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50 better? It has more zzdp for sure, but I am not sure that makes it better. I am sure both are fine for my application.

Top
#4164639 - 07/30/16 08:28 AM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: Spooled]
alarmguy Online   content


Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 2244
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Spooled
It is SM / MA2 rated. It is definitely not sold at "auto store" prices. Is Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50 better? It has more zzdp for sure, but I am not sure that makes it better. I am sure both are fine for my application.


I am sure too.
The whole ZZDP thing is getting real old. There are so many new superior chemicals in oils, its not 3 decades ago anymore and high ZZDP does not mean less wear, in fact it might mean more piston and ring deposits.
But anyway, the point is, Blackstone can only test for the decades old components of oil, not the new modern day chemicals which are far superior in most cases..we have to remember, oil and film strength is the best anti-wear agent.
Certainly looks like a nice robust oil and high flashpoint.


Edited by alarmguy (07/30/16 08:37 AM)
_________________________
14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50

Top
#4167736 - 08/02/16 10:25 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: Spooled]
Ohle_Manezzini Offline


Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 666
Loc: Pindorama
what other "new superior chemicals in oils", better than ZDDP in a bike oils. Moly? Boron?

I don't think so. Only if the bike has catalist on emission control. Zddp still better to have it high, in a VII shearer, with a lot of big internal chain/sprocket timing engine. I don't know if this bmw is a shared sump wet clutch or not, but...

Top
#4170280 - 08/06/16 01:10 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: Spooled]
benjy Online   content


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 934
Loc: pa
very interesting seeing that my bmw manual says NO moly additives!! not a lot but 155 ppm, many motorcycle oils use none! being on this forum you prolly realise that semi-syn is quite the rip-off aka polaris semi-syn. there being no laws as to the amount of synthetic in the blend, prolly group III "synthetic" in this case from GTL technology aka purebase pennzoil platinum which may be better than the highly refined CRUDE also classed as group III. at $14.50 a qt i went shopping + found Valvoline "fully synthetic" motorcycle oil meets the SJ/JASO MA2 spec for $8.50 a qt @ wallys. its surely a group III synthetic + not a group IV or V base oil at that price + being all group III may very well be better than the $14.50 BMW ADVANTEC PRO 15-50 spec'd for us!!


Edited by benjy (08/06/16 01:11 PM)

Top
#4171344 - 08/07/16 07:40 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: benjy]
Spooled Offline


Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 26
Loc: OR
Originally Posted By: benjy
very interesting seeing that my bmw manual says NO moly additives!! not a lot but 155 ppm, many motorcycle oils use none! being on this forum you prolly realise that semi-syn is quite the rip-off aka polaris semi-syn. there being no laws as to the amount of synthetic in the blend, prolly group III "synthetic" in this case from GTL technology aka purebase pennzoil platinum which may be better than the highly refined CRUDE also classed as group III. at $14.50 a qt i went shopping + found Valvoline "fully synthetic" motorcycle oil meets the SJ/JASO MA2 spec for $8.50 a qt @ wallys. its surely a group III synthetic + not a group IV or V base oil at that price + being all group III may very well be better than the $14.50 BMW ADVANTEC PRO 15-50 spec'd for us!!


I get this oil at $8.00 a quart. I do understand that some semi synthetics are not a great value. I was just interested in seeing what BMW and Shell came up with after Shell replaced Castrol as the supplier to BMW. That being said, I generally use Valvoline Racing Dino 20W50 in this bike. It does not share it's sump with the transmission, so practically any 20W50 can be used and I like the Valvoline Racing formula with extra zinc.
I assume that in the newer BMW bikes concerning moly, that they are referring to additives above and beyond what is normally found in oils meeting the MA specs for the bike. Apparently they feel it can attack coatings inside the motor.

Top
#4172383 - 08/09/16 01:53 AM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: alarmguy]
UltrafanUK Offline


Registered: 04/18/16
Posts: 985
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: Spooled
It is SM / MA2 rated. It is definitely not sold at "auto store" prices. Is Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50 better? It has more zzdp for sure, but I am not sure that makes it better. I am sure both are fine for my application.


I am sure too.
The whole ZZDP thing is getting real old. There are so many new superior chemicals in oils, its not 3 decades ago anymore and high ZZDP does not mean less wear, in fact it might mean more piston and ring deposits.
But anyway, the point is, Blackstone can only test for the decades old components of oil, not the new modern day chemicals which are far superior in most cases..we have to remember, oil and film strength is the best anti-wear agent.
Certainly looks like a nice robust oil and high flashpoint.


Perhaps you could list the new age alternative anti wear compounds that do not show up in a Blackstone UOA??

Titanium was used in a few oils by Castrol, BUT it was used more for a marketing advantage, as they added so little the experts in my local oil lab thought it was some kind of joke. There is no real ecomonic alternative to the use of Zinc based anti wear additives, although using a group Synthoil base, MOS2 or more Boron compounds does help.
_________________________
Shell Ultra 0 or 5w40 or Liqui Moly 5w40 plus Ceratec every long OCI.
LM idle flush every 100K km.

Top
#4173764 - 08/10/16 05:03 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: UltrafanUK]
Spooled Offline


Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 26
Loc: OR
Perhaps you could list the new age alternative anti wear compounds that do not show up in a Blackstone UOA??

Titanium was used in a few oils by Castrol, BUT it was used more for a marketing advantage, as they added so little the experts in my local oil lab thought it was some kind of joke. There is no real ecomonic alternative to the use of Zinc based anti wear additives, although using a group Synthoil base, MOS2 or more Boron compounds does help. [/quote]

First let me preface this by saying I am not an oil expert, but an oil enthusiast that is interested in oil related subjects.

I am in the same camp as Alarmguy in thinking that there are additives that may not show up in an analysis due to the fact that they are not being checked for. It is simply my opinion and I have no way of proving or disproving that they are there. To me it is like the wind, I can't see it but I believe it is there because of reactions the wind causes. If I could prove that these additives were there or available, I would probably be working at an oil company or analysis lab. I don't think anyone has shown me they don't exist, so we can all believe what we want. I think everyone here is really just looking to find what oil may be best for their application from what they can find in different analysis results. Some oils with high zinc do great, some do just ok. I am more interested in the base oil than the additives. Obviously I want the right additives, but the base oil is 70% of what I am adding to the bike. It interests me that while the labs can list the additives, people on this board have to speculate what the base oil is or how it was derived. As far as I have seen, there is some speculation when oil analysis are posted here as to what group the base oil is. I would guess that there is some way to tell if a base oil was derived from gas to liquid technology or from another source. I know they are different, but it doesn't show up in the analysis we see, but I know there must be SOME difference, good, bad or indifferent. I am just saying that because I don't see something, I don't dismiss it being there.

In the case of this bike, it has 2 contradictory oil related needs. It is a flat tappet bike (zinc has proven to be good) and a catalytic converter (phosphorus not supposed to be good). I chose my primary oil (Valvoline Racing 20W50) based on what I thought was best for my application. I am sure the Advantec would be fine, I just have more criteria about the Valvoline. The Valvoline doesn't look super special on paper, but from most of the reports here, it has SOMETHING that works well in most bikes, so I use it. The bike is a 2007, so pretty much any oil I use today will outperform what came in it from the factory. Most bikes today have catalytic converters and overhead cams, so the question of whether more zinc is better will be less of an issue. I think that is why you see lower zinc and phosphorus number in this Advantec. It is geared to the modern BMW bikes.



Edited by Spooled (08/10/16 05:14 PM)

Top
#4178417 - 08/15/16 08:35 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: Spooled]
benjy Online   content


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 934
Loc: pa
what i am interested in is the no moly additives. i have never read that moly is bad for coated parts. i use redline 20-50 motorcycle oil in another bike + it contains about 500ppm moly, no clutch issues or anything else. i would think redline to be very savy about oil blending + i am going to contact them for their input on this. manufactures put a lot of [censored] out to push their decent but overpriced factory branded lubricants as they know many unknowlegable riders are easily "scared" inth using only their factory recommended oils!!!

Top
#4185238 - 08/24/16 09:31 AM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: Spooled]
JonfromCB Offline


Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 173
Loc: Iowa
Spooled is right on. The new BMW Advantec oils are GTL group III+ formulated for new Euro 3 emission standards and shared sump BMWs/other Euro 3 shared sump machines. Think MA2 wet clutch materials, optimum wet clutch friction and less oil additives getting to catalytic converter. BMW/Shell absolutely will not release data sheets on this oil (ask me how I know). I've been waiting to see a VOA on either of the two Advantec weights. I'm wondering if there might not be a new generation of glycol based additives in it? Also want to see a couple of UOAs on this stuff after being whipped-up in a Ducati or BMW 1000 shared sump for 6K miles.

Spooled, I'm curious as to where you get this oil for $8/liter. Shell has allowed BMW to keep a close hold on it's marketing and dealers aren't selling it for less than $!&/liter unless discounted during factory service interval.

For what it's worth, it's not what I would be using in a 2007 RT with a dry clutch and separate sumps. My preference would be something with lots of group V in any air head (Motul or Redline) and RL Shockproof in the gearbox.



Edited by JonfromCB (08/24/16 09:33 AM)

Top
#4185863 - 08/24/16 11:37 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: JonfromCB]
Spooled Offline


Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 26
Loc: OR
I get it from my BMW Motorrad dealer. They treat very well on parts as my company sells them automotive parts.

I had the sample analyzed before deciding if I was going to use the oil in my bike. As I posted, I use Valvoline Racing 20W50 Dino. I don't have anything against Redline other than I think that they overdose some of their additives. Just my opinion, nothing scientific. I am not from the camp of more is better. I use the BMW factory oil in the gearbox. It is synthetic and the bike shifts well.

I too would like to see how this oil holds up in one of the late model BMW's, unfortunately it won't be me posting it as I love my 2007 RT and it still is in excellent shape with 30,000 miles.


Edited by Spooled (08/24/16 11:41 PM)

Top
#4189874 - 08/29/16 05:32 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: Spooled]
benjy Online   content


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 934
Loc: pa
being a semi-syn the advantec only legally needs "some" group III oil in the blend!! i "assumed" all GTL oil was group III but recently read it needs the same severe hydrocracking as CRUDE oils from the ground to be group III. like most manufacturers oil its decent but overpriced for sure IMO

Top
#4198229 - 09/08/16 02:53 PM Re: BMW Advantec Pro 15W50 Motorcyle Oil [Re: Spooled]
carock Offline


Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 537
Loc: California
I can't believe people are still talking about ZDDP levels on this forum!

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >