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Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. #4115672 06/05/16 10:03 AM
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CBR.worm Offline OP
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I have an '06 G35 that since around 90K has had pretty loud valvetrain tick/knock and general top end noise when hot. I attributed it to the abuse the car takes on a daily basis. I have run M1 0w-40 since new - except for some track days. The oil temps in the car cruising on the highway floats around 115-125C typically, higher if I am over ~4.5K for extended periods of time. during track days it was hitting 160 w/ M10-w40 and also M1 15w-50. It hasn't really gotten any worse in the last 70K. Oil temp (in this car) seems to be related more to engine speed than load.

Yesterday I got home and (because it was almost 100 degrees outside) I left the car running with the AC on while I detailed the interior. I realized after an hour or so that the engine was totally silent - like it is when cold. I hooked up my scan tool to see if anything was significantly different than normal. Other than excessively high air (70c) intake temp, the oil temp had dropped to 82C. I went out and got on the highway for a few miles (highway here is ~85mph typically), came back home, the tick/knock was back. Let the car idle for another hour while I washed the outside if it and detailed the exterior, leaving the scan tool connected. The noise subsided around the time the oil temp dropped below 90c. At 90c it was just audible, by the time it dropped to 85 it was totally silent again.

So. I've been ignoring the noise that makes my car sound like a broken tractor for 70K miles. If I were to go to a thicker oil, potentially quieting the top end noise, is it likely that something in the bottom end would be unhappy?

When I used to do a lot of track days I used M1 15w-50 and still had the tick/knock, but the oil temps were significantly higher.

The next model year increased HP and RPM and many people added a secondary oil cooler (I think Nissan sold one for them). The newer ECU would also limit RPM after the oil got to a certain temp. The newer motor also had variable valve lift which apparently really increased oil temps and noise in the valvetrain.

Should I just continue to ignore it or would it be worth trying something thicker? The lowest temp this year was around 40F. It will be 95+ for the next 4 months.


'06 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6MT - 180k
Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4115685 06/05/16 10:21 AM
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Pontual Offline
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Maybe the clearances are getting wider. If it is a clean engine I'd try a thicker like 20w50 to get a better response for this issue an note at witch temperature it starts to knock/tick. If it helps, I'd go to a more expensive fully syn 10w60.

Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4115687 06/05/16 10:23 AM
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aquariuscsm Online Content
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Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
If I were to go to a thicker oil, potentially quieting the top end noise, is it likely that something in the bottom end would be unhappy?


The way I understand it from reading here on this site,thicker oils are better for the bottom end. Anyone definitely correct me if I'm wrong on this,like I said,I'm just repeating what I've read here over the years.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30

Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4115694 06/05/16 10:28 AM
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Ethan1 Offline
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It sounds like you're trying to solve an engineering or usage pattern issue by changing oil viscosity. Why not upgrade your oil cooler? You'll even gain some oil capacity that way, you won't be limited in oil selection by your chosen viscosity, and you won't have to worry about the bottom end. A bigger or secondary oil cooler is probably a good idea for a car that sees track time anyway, right?

Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4115705 06/05/16 10:51 AM
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andyd Offline
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Quick and easy would be going to a thicker oil. Present oil viscosity thinness is driven by MPG, not engine longevity. In north FL you can use 20w50 all yr. It is fine for lower ends. Better, IMHO grin2

Last edited by andyd; 06/05/16 10:54 AM.

'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4115727 06/05/16 11:18 AM
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Sounds like another oil cooler should be in your future.


2013 Honda Accord LX, 61K, 2nd owner
2007 Honda Ridgeline RTS, 91K, 1st owner
2007 Infiniti M35, 113K, 1st owner
Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4115750 06/05/16 11:47 AM
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I would look into the oil cooler for sure. For giggles I would try some mos2 with your current oil.


2013 Taurus sho. Lm 5w30 lm in transfer case and rear diff. Napa platinum filter
1999 GMC suburban 5.7.
1977 dodge w150 360
Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4115756 06/05/16 11:54 AM
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Prune_Juice Offline
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Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
I have an '06 G35 that since around 90K has had pretty loud valvetrain tick/knock and general top end noise when hot. I attributed it to the abuse the car takes on a daily basis. I have run M1 0w-40 since new - except for some track days. The oil temps in the car cruising on the highway floats around 115-125C typically, higher if I am over ~4.5K for extended periods of time. during track days it was hitting 160 w/ M10-w40 and also M1 15w-50. It hasn't really gotten any worse in the last 70K. Oil temp (in this car) seems to be related more to engine speed than load.

Yesterday I got home and (because it was almost 100 degrees outside) I left the car running with the AC on while I detailed the interior. I realized after an hour or so that the engine was totally silent - like it is when cold. I hooked up my scan tool to see if anything was significantly different than normal. Other than excessively high air (70c) intake temp, the oil temp had dropped to 82C. I went out and got on the highway for a few miles (highway here is ~85mph typically), came back home, the tick/knock was back. Let the car idle for another hour while I washed the outside if it and detailed the exterior, leaving the scan tool connected. The noise subsided around the time the oil temp dropped below 90c. At 90c it was just audible, by the time it dropped to 85 it was totally silent again.

So. I've been ignoring the noise that makes my car sound like a broken tractor for 70K miles. If I were to go to a thicker oil, potentially quieting the top end noise, is it likely that something in the bottom end would be unhappy?

When I used to do a lot of track days I used M1 15w-50 and still had the tick/knock, but the oil temps were significantly higher.

The next model year increased HP and RPM and many people added a secondary oil cooler (I think Nissan sold one for them). The newer ECU would also limit RPM after the oil got to a certain temp. The newer motor also had variable valve lift which apparently really increased oil temps and noise in the valvetrain.

Should I just continue to ignore it or would it be worth trying something thicker? The lowest temp this year was around 40F. It will be 95+ for the next 4 months.


When you mention the M1 15W-50 (one of their finest oils along with 0W-40, creme de la creme,) you mention higher oil temps.. because it was a track day, or because the oil itself is thicker and actually helps produce higher oil temps as well?

Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4115789 06/05/16 12:32 PM
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Last edited by steveh; 06/05/16 12:33 PM.
Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: NormanBuntz] #4115813 06/05/16 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
Sounds like another oil cooler should be in your future.


Given the temperatures involved, this is the expedient route to take. Temps in the 90C range are about ideal, anyway.

Best guess for the source of the racket is a chain tensioner that has some leak by going on.

Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4115865 06/05/16 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
I have an '06 G35 that since around 90K has had pretty loud valvetrain tick/knock and general top end noise when hot. The oil temps in the car cruising on the highway floats around 115-125C typically, higher if I am over ~4.5K for extended periods of time. during track days it was hitting 160 w/ M10-w40 and also M1 15w-50. It hasn't really gotten any worse in the last 70K. Oil temp (in this car) seems to be related more to engine speed than load.

The noise subsided around the time the oil temp dropped below 90c. At 90c it was just audible, by the time it dropped to 85 it was totally silent again.

When I used to do a lot of track days I used M1 15w-50 and still had the tick/knock, but the oil temps were significantly higher.

Oil temp is more related to engine speed than load in any vehicle.

My 2000 E430 was very quiet the first 70-80k miles with M1 0W40, it was very loud around 80-90k miles, the engine sound liked a diesel engine of the 80's.

I then tried Pennzoil Platinum 5W20, the engine was so quiet that I can hear the A/C fan running at lowest speed when the car was stop at red light, it used to be I could not hear the fan running until the speed was at 4th or 5th. Also, the engine(coolant) temperature was and is lower with thinner oil by about 5-8C.

The car doesn't have oil temp gauge and I don't have scan tool to measure oil temp so I don't know, but my guess is the oil temp is probably somewhat cooler at all engine speed.

You can display oil temp of your car, why not try xW20 to see if you will get lower oil temp and quieter engine ?


'00 MB E430
'04 Honda S2000
'06 Volvo V70
'14 Honda Accord LX
"Throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pope Francis
Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4115876 06/05/16 02:45 PM
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I would probably look into timing chain and related components, given Nissan/Infiniti reputation for timing chains stretching, tensioners, etc...

Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: aquariuscsm] #4115902 06/05/16 03:25 PM
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Pontual Offline
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
If I were to go to a thicker oil, potentially quieting the top end noise, is it likely that something in the bottom end would be unhappy?


The way I understand it from reading here on this site,thicker oils are better for the bottom end. Anyone definitely correct me if I'm wrong on this,like I said,I'm just repeating what I've read here over the years.


Besides the Ferrari guy on the university 101 ... He uses 0w16 now, the car is approaching 5k miles and "run like new".

JK

Last edited by Pontual; 06/05/16 03:26 PM.
Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: HTSS_TR] #4115913 06/05/16 03:39 PM
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Rand Online Content
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Oil temp is more related to engine speed than load in any vehicle.


its related to how much gas you are burning. Its incredibly easy to burn much more at 4000+rpm vs 2000rpm.

The more gas you burn=more heat=hotter oil.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

The car doesn't have oil temp gauge and I don't have scan tool to measure oil temp so I don't know, but my guess is the oil temp is probably somewhat cooler at all engine speed.

You can display oil temp of your car, why not try xW20 to see if you will get lower oil temp and quieter engine ?



That is incredibly bad advice. You want him to run a tracked car that sees 300F oil temp on 20w? There would be no viscosity reserve and damage would result.

It might be ok for regular highway driving.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: Should I be using thicker oil? Tick related. [Re: CBR.worm] #4116004 06/05/16 04:42 PM
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Going to a heavier oil favors the main bearings, "bottom end" and the lubed valve train in general.

However, heavier oil detracts a little or a lot from lubrication at cylinder walls, piston rings, etc. The issue is to get the full shot of oil into the cylinder walls and the scrapper ring to get off just the right amount.

Spiking aluminum levels in engine oil analysis usually point to excessive aluminum piston or cylinder wear.

If you didn't race the engine using a heavier oil can reduce noise. Really high piston speeds don't like thick oil.

In a 1980's 318 V8 I used 20W50 (!!) oil to slow crankseal leaks even in cold weather, but I never raced it. With 10W30 oil, it puked at least 1 quart a day easy!!

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