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Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) #4115538 06/05/16 04:59 AM
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nobb Offline OP
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Just wondering what are your thoughts on Moog's advertisement of them using the gusher bearing design in chassis parts. For anyone unfamiliar, it's a powdered metal ball that is porous for grease to penetrate/soak through. The ball usually also has grease grooves and is housed in a metal seat.

If you move a brand new Moog joint, there is a lot of friction in the movement. In comparison, most OEM chassis parts use a polished heat treated ball in a teflon seat which provides a smoother low friction movement. I read somewhere that this is a 50 year old design? I'm also not convinced that a part made from "powdered metal" would be as strong as a conventional forged steel ball with heat treatment. The heat treatment process, when done properly, would allow for the control of hardness or ductile properties in the material. I'm not sure if heat treatment can even be applied in the same fashion to powdered metal.

So is this really a superior design over an OEM style ball/seat, or just an excuse to cut costs? I know back in the day, Moog was known for quality parts but nowadays all their stuff is made in China.

Re: Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) [Re: nobb] #4115551 06/05/16 05:49 AM
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Kruse Offline
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Originally Posted By: nobb
Moog was known for quality parts but nowadays all their stuff is made in China.


Not all of their stuff is made in China. Their "R" line, the entry-level line, probably has a good chance of being made in China. Their problem-solver line has a higher likelihood of not being made in China, but perhaps that is changing also. Stay away from their "R" line.

Re: Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) [Re: nobb] #4115593 06/05/16 06:56 AM
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Merkava_4 Offline
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It's too late to talk me out of it; I've had the USA made CK series lower control arms on for 3 years now and have no complaints. Super high quality. You'll have to try to scare somebody else.

Re: Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) [Re: nobb] #4115643 06/05/16 08:33 AM
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Vern_in_IL Offline
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Quote:
So is this really a superior design over an OEM style ball/seat, or just an excuse to cut costs?


Depends on the model! If your buying a economy car, on the lower end, it should be an improvement, but for anything in the middle, and upper class, go OEM.

...and the Moog comments are unnecessary, I don't blame Moog, I blame our stupid-corrupt leadership. A 35% tariff is needed.

Last edited by Vern_in_IL; 06/05/16 08:35 AM.
Re: Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) [Re: nobb] #4115644 06/05/16 08:34 AM
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mclasser Offline
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I installed Moog tie rod ends this past winter. They're made in USA and are better constructed than the old Honda tie rods. No complaints so far. Just got to spend 2 minutes greasing then every oil change.


2018 Hyundai Elantra VE
2013 Honda Pilot EX-L 4WD
2002 Honda Accord EX-L

Re: Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) [Re: nobb] #4115655 06/05/16 08:46 AM
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eljefino Offline
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It wouldn't be much effort for them to make the ball and socket physically larger and negate any problems from the older tech.

I try not to replace OE front end parts "on a hunch" though, or "for a freshen up" because the replacements are likely worse.

Re: Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) [Re: Vern_in_IL] #4115657 06/05/16 08:47 AM
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nobb Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL

...and the Moog comments are unnecessary, I don't blame Moog, I blame our stupid-corrupt leadership. A 35% tariff is needed.


Not trying to blame anyone. Made in China stuff can be good with the proper QC. But the outsourcing of manufacturing is another separate discussion. I'm more so curious about the engineering behind their design and if it really is an improvement.

I also don't think all of their Problem Solver joints are designed in house. Some appear to just be repackaged from another manufacturer (the ball joints for my 4Runner boxed by Moog were actually Sankei 555 parts). It's actually not that uncommon these days to see top tier brands just repackaging something else, so that brings about the question on can you really buy a part based on its reputation?

Re: Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) [Re: nobb] #4115714 06/05/16 09:58 AM
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NHGUY Offline
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MOOG is owned by Federal Mogul,Federal Mogul is owned by Carl Icahn.He owns Pep Boys and Auto Plus chains. Let people decide from there....

Re: Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) [Re: nobb] #4115723 06/05/16 10:11 AM
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Trav Offline
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The advantage of the gusher bearing is its ability to hold grease and keep the wear down to a minimum if the joint isn't greased as frequently as it should be.
In the days of steel ball and socket joints it was a significant benefit, it compensated somewhat for lax maintenance and ill fitting boots.

Today sealed joint use polymer seats that by design require a polished steel joint. LFL technology uses sealed boots and don't require a lot of grease, they are a superior joint for normal use.
The steel/steel zerk lubed joint will take a pounding better and with regular maintenance is well suited to heavy equipment, off road and class 8 trucks.

To get the most out of a steel/steel joint maintenance is everything, religious greasing intervals are a must or they will wear out quickly (the gusher bearing is a little more tolerant), this old school design doesn't fit well in modern cars with long service intervals.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) [Re: Vern_in_IL] #4115760 06/05/16 11:01 AM
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per history, right after WWII the Japanese were selling very cheap items in USA. The American buyers would purchase only the lowest price parts, even though Japanese firms could make better for slightly more money. This is when the Japanese government started requiring minimum standards to export, such as in optics. You could charge as little as desired for export, but you must make a better quality unit. So the real cheap stuff went away. This is about the time that W.E. Deming went to assist the Japanese I'm sure many Chinese companies can make better quality parts at very competitive prices, but not quality and almost free prices, as buyers often demand.

Re: Moog Gusher Bearing Design (Tie Rod, Ball Joints) [Re: nobb] #4116255 06/05/16 07:50 PM
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I like them because a torn boot doesn't spell death for the joint, like with a sealed unit.

I've got one Truck that has had a ripped boot on its ball joint for 110k miles. Just grease it regularly and it keeps going.

I prefer Amsoil off-road grease or dominator depending on what I have on hand.


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