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Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies #4115167 06/04/16 03:39 PM
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Nick1994 Offline OP
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I've always had a hard time with how unresponsive electronic GM throttle bodies are. Well, at least the older ones. And I'm a GM guy! The ones I have driven have no power off the line, It's like they fall flat on their face. From a stop if you floor it, it slowly creeps up the RPMs but once they get moving they have plenty of power, no complaints there. So 20mph+ if you stomp on the gas they'll move down the road in a hurry. The cars that have done this to me are: 2002 Chevy Trailblazer LTZ (4.2), 2-2003 Chevy Silverados (5.3), 2005 Chevy Tahoe (5.3), and a 2006 Isuzu Ascender (4.2). On any of these vehicles, they won't even chirp the tires when taking off at all, and traction control isn't even kicking in.

I've towed trailers with the Trailblazer & the Ascender, and while the Trailblazer had MUCH more power towing (3.73 gears, probably higher gears in the Ascender), they both have no power off the line, but do just fine once moving.

My comparison to this is my previous 1996 Chevy C1500 Silverado 5.7L, which would lay down 2 black stripes that were probably close to 15 feet long. It always had power right off the line (it had an actual throttle cable).

It makes it really annoying driving in the mountains too because when giving it a little more gas, sometimes they'll just hop down to 2nd gear and scream up the mountain, it's too hard to "feel" when it's going to shift. So what's up with it?


2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0L 55k Mobil 1 5w30 & Wix
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 236k Mobil Super HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 149k Mobil 1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115182 06/04/16 03:51 PM
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Ramblejam Offline
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If you delivered full available torque to that 4L60 (minimal tip-in management), what do you think would happen to durability?


Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Ramblejam] #4115184 06/04/16 03:53 PM
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Nick1994 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
If you delivered full available torque to that 4L60 (tip-in management), what do you think would happen to durability?

Sometimes when pulling out onto a highway it's nice to be able to actually move, especially when other cars are coming. Also especially when there's a trailer behind you.


2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0L 55k Mobil 1 5w30 & Wix
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 236k Mobil Super HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 149k Mobil 1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115185 06/04/16 03:54 PM
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Ramblejam Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
If you delivered full available torque to that 4L60 (tip-in management), what do you think would happen to durability?

Sometimes when pulling out onto a highway it's nice to be able to actually move, especially when other cars are coming. Also especially when there's a trailer behind you.


If it bothers you to that degree, get the thing tuned.

Both brake torque limit, and ETC tip-in limit can be modified to your tastes.

Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115275 06/04/16 05:42 PM
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Dorian Offline
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THIS! I have had this issue as well, and is still my biggest complaint with GM vehicles. It only gets worse with the transmission tuning. The Pontiac has these issues, and my Camry is the exact opposite. Just imagine it with these new turbo engines.


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Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115276 06/04/16 05:44 PM
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My son lives in Phoenix and has all of his cars 'tuned" by various shops.

My 2008 Trailblazer with the 5.3L V8 will lay down 2 black stripes and it has 118,000 miles on it. It has had NO chipping or software mods.


Charlie Eppes: "What do you think we should do now?"
Don Eppes: "The same thing when I was in school and I didn't know the answer – fake it." From NUMB3RS
Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115351 06/04/16 07:02 PM
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bdcardinal Offline
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My rental is a 2016 Impala with a 3.6L and the throttle body is really weird. The Fords I have driven with them and my Volvo did not have any issues whatsoever with throttle response.


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Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115372 06/04/16 07:25 PM
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eljefino Offline
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I still remember a midsize pontiac (G3?) I rented that did this to me. 0-25 was a prayer then it would perk up and then perk up again at 45+.

I can imagine fooling some really stupid people on test drives who think the top 20% of the pedal gives them so much 50-75 passing power, only to find it was all an illusion.

On the flipside my electric throttle HHR makes some nice snappy shifts with power cuts in the right milliseconds. As an end-of-life car user I like the idea of anti-abuse programming forced upon previous owners. wink

Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Ramblejam] #4115375 06/04/16 07:29 PM
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clinebarger Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
If you delivered full available torque to that 4L60 (minimal tip-in management), what do you think would happen to durability?



Off the line in 1st gear...Probably nothing, 1-2 shift also. Though ALL torque is routed through the Forward Sprag that is known to "Wad" up.
The 2-3 shift & any Downshift from 3rd or 4th to 1st or 2nd at full tilt really needs Torque Management for the 3-4 Clutches to live.

I do agree with you, Most folks do not understand the massive Torque Rise available right off idle, And a "Bad" tune can hurt the transmission. A good tuner can give you better drivability buy modifying the TM tables & allowing the trans to live, Some just turn the TM off.....Not good.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115415 06/04/16 08:53 PM
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Kibitoshin Offline
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I guess I'm lucky I was on the tail end for cable driven throttle bodies since my 02 Silverado 5.3L has a TB cable. Throttle response is wonderful off the bat, until its conservative gear shifting programming kills the fun.

Last edited by Kibitoshin; 06/04/16 08:53 PM.

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Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115418 06/04/16 08:58 PM
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Wheel Offline
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In a drive-by-wire system, I think it may have to do with the programming in the ecu, or how linear the signal from throttle actually is. It is pretty common for potentiometers to not be nice and even in resistance, especially in a automotive environment. Most systems are running 2 pots, and averaging the signal controlling the throttle plate. As they drift, so does the throttle position.

They are not quite as predictable as a cable.


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Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115425 06/04/16 09:11 PM
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Cujet Offline
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Just an FYI, most "throttle by wire" throttle bodies can actually move the throttle plate very quickly. It is the programming that is problematic.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Ramblejam] #4115428 06/04/16 09:16 PM
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rooflessVW Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
If you delivered full available torque to that 4L60 (minimal tip-in management), what do you think would happen to durability?



This is exactly the reason, and it can all be mitigated with aftermarket tuning. All the Toyotas I have driven were the worst for this.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115435 06/04/16 09:28 PM
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splinter Offline
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WTLY

Nothing a few keystrokes with trusty EFILive and/or HPTuners software can't workaround.
I'm no computer guy but it's easy (and fun!) even for luddites. smile

Ironic how my 48 IDAs and Quadrajets feel so 'responsive' when properly tweaked.
But with the ever-present aroma of hydrocarbons wafting from their respective tailpipes.


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Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Re: Unresponsiveness of GM Electronic Throttle Bodies [Re: Nick1994] #4115448 06/04/16 09:51 PM
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JBinTX30 Offline
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I noticed the throttle response difference between the Yukon and Trailblazer. The Yukon feels so much more responsive. Just goes to show you the software makes a ton of difference.

A tune would fix that easy. PCMofNC does tunes for a good price and you can pick the shift firmness as well and everything else you want.

Also anyone with a 4L60E, for better 1-2 shifts the vette servo mod is awesome.


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06 Chevy Trailblazer LS 4.2
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