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Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? #4114997 06/04/16 11:19 AM
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Gearcruncher Offline OP
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I have a BMW M5 with a 6 speed manual transmission. I take this car to the track, and on faster tracks, after 20-30 minutes, I get a warning that the transmission is getting too hot and the car reduces the redline of the engine.

The transmission does not have an oil cooler, and does not have a known way to add one.

I am running fresh OEM fluid in the transmission. Any pointers out there on if a different fluid or an additive would reduce enough friction to make a difference? Just getting me another 10 minutes would make me happy.

Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Gearcruncher] #4115004 06/04/16 11:37 AM
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MolaKule Offline
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What is the 100C viscosity of the Speced fluid?

One thing you don't want to mess with is the fluids friction modifier.

Any further tracking may require a transmission cooler, since the transmission design and fluid was speced for non-track operation.


Charlie Eppes: "What do you think we should do now?"
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Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Gearcruncher] #4115005 06/04/16 11:38 AM
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Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Gearcruncher] #4115035 06/04/16 12:13 PM
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You could get a shop to drill and tap two holes in the appropriate spots and use a pump to circulate fluid through a cooler. Have the pump turn on at a certain temp. Would be consideratly less than a blown tranny. just a thought smile


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Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Gearcruncher] #4115047 06/04/16 12:27 PM
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rooflessVW Offline
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I would recommend you use a high quality synthetic fluid, check the link to Redline Oils.

The temperature circuit, I'm sure, can be fooled. That gearbox takes much more abuse in its other applications. Several high-horse E39s (F.I.) have no issues with transmission temperature or wear.

The E90/92 version of the gearbox does have an oil cooler installed from the factory, but I do not believe that there is a way to retrofit it to the E60 unit.


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Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: abycat] #4115067 06/04/16 01:01 PM
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bdcardinal Offline
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Originally Posted By: abycat
You could get a shop to drill and tap two holes in the appropriate spots and use a pump to circulate fluid through a cooler. Have the pump turn on at a certain temp. Would be consideratly less than a blown tranny. just a thought smile


I bet he could just use the drain and fill fittings for the in and out lines on the cooler. Then use a Mocal pump and oil cooler. Some of the guys with Terminators that road race use a Mocal pump and then mount a stock supercharger heat exchanger on the rear bumper.


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Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Gearcruncher] #4115073 06/04/16 01:11 PM
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eljefino Offline
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If the transmission has cooling fins cast in there may be a way to rig a fan up. Think of a hopped up CPU cooler.

Are all the splash shields and underbody thingies still properly attached?

Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: bdcardinal] #4115089 06/04/16 01:42 PM
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Olas Offline
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Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: abycat
You could get a shop to drill and tap two holes in the appropriate spots and use a pump to circulate fluid through a cooler. Have the pump turn on at a certain temp. Would be consideratly less than a blown tranny. just a thought smile


I bet he could just use the drain and fill fittings for the in and out lines on the cooler. Then use a Mocal pump and oil cooler. Some of the guys with Terminators that road race use a Mocal pump and then mount a stock supercharger heat exchanger on the rear bumper.


This.
Using the drain plug and fill plug as feed and return for the cooler is a known and accepted practice.
Better fluid wouldn't hurt either.


Cable ties should hold it
Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Gearcruncher] #4115121 06/04/16 02:18 PM
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Jetronic Offline
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is the temperature being measured, or calculated? if the latter, nothing will help besides flashing the software...


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Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Gearcruncher] #4115451 06/04/16 09:56 PM
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Gearcruncher Offline OP
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I dug through my records and I'm actually running Redline MTL in the transmission. It's a lot cheaper than the stock stuff (BMW MTF-LT-2 at $25+ a liter).

The transmission temp is detected by a sensor. I'm still tempted to just throw a resistor in and trick it into thinking the temp is 25 deg lower than it is, and then replace the fluid every year.

I'll climb under the car this weekend and see what can be done in terms of drain/fill fittings or other possibilities.

Thanks for everyone's input!

Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Olas] #4115660 06/05/16 08:52 AM
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MolaKule Offline
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Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: abycat
You could get a shop to drill and tap two holes in the appropriate spots and use a pump to circulate fluid through a cooler. Have the pump turn on at a certain temp. Would be consideratly less than a blown tranny. just a thought smile


I bet he could just use the drain and fill fittings for the in and out lines on the cooler. Then use a Mocal pump and oil cooler. Some of the guys with Terminators that road race use a Mocal pump and then mount a stock supercharger heat exchanger on the rear bumper.


This.
Using the drain plug and fill plug as feed and return for the cooler is a known and accepted practice.
Better fluid wouldn't hurt either.


thumbsup

This would appear to be the least "Knuckle Damage" approach. smile

Last edited by MolaKule; 06/05/16 08:54 AM.

Charlie Eppes: "What do you think we should do now?"
Don Eppes: "The same thing when I was in school and I didn't know the answer – fake it." From NUMB3RS
Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Gearcruncher] #4115684 06/05/16 09:19 AM
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Jetronic Offline
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ever considered you have a case of thermal runaway? MTL is about as thin as Redline goes. For track use it would be prudent to go up a bit anyway. MT85 or shockproof light?


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Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Gearcruncher] #4115686 06/05/16 09:22 AM
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Jetronic Offline
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Ever considered you have a case of thermal runaway? MTL is about as thin as Redline goes. For track use it would be prudent to go up a bit anyway. MT85 or shockproof light?


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Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Gearcruncher] #4115942 06/05/16 03:03 PM
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MolaKule Offline
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I believe the stock MTL is like a 7.5 cSt viscosity fluid.

Going up any higher than the 10 cSt fluid in there currently is only going to raise temps, not decrease them.

Maybe try these fluids, which are ~ 7.0 [email protected]:

Royal Purple's Synchromax

Ravenol MTF-2

Honda MTF

VW part number G052512A2

Pentosin MTF 2; sometimes denoted as MTF-LT-1, 2.


Last edited by MolaKule; 06/05/16 03:09 PM.

Charlie Eppes: "What do you think we should do now?"
Don Eppes: "The same thing when I was in school and I didn't know the answer – fake it." From NUMB3RS
Re: Cool manual trans with a new fluid or additive? [Re: Jetronic] #4116296 06/05/16 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jetronic
MTL is about as thin as Redline goes.


The Red Line MTL may be the thinnest actual manual trans fluid they make, but at 10.6 cSt it is still MUCH thicker than what that gearbox came with from the factory (a ~7.5 cSt fluid, as Mola Kule has stated).


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