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Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? #4112994 06/02/16 12:25 AM
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crazyoildude Offline OP
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Im just curious if Fram, Wix, Motorcraft and some of the others are going to be using louvers?
Im not really a fan of louvers because i believe in some cases flow will suffer but i don't have any proof of that either.. Maybe i just don't like change. I think someone here may have said Motorcraft has louvers on some filters but im not sure. Times are changing there was a time i refused to try an ultra but now i use them on all my vehicles.
Although i don't still have the shop i still go to engine re builders meetings and the next meeting we will have a GM tech and possibly a ford guy there and i will be sure to ask them what they think of louvers.. I remember asking a couple of the GM techs about the e core and they said they did that for flow. Who Knows..

Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: crazyoildude] #4113019 06/02/16 03:49 AM
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dlundblad Offline
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I cut open a WIX last weekend that had holes IIRC.

Visually, it looks like the louvers make a more "holey" surface area than the holes do, but I dont think the engine will know the difference. When hot, the oil flows very well.

Use both buddy! laugh


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 195k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chvy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980

Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: crazyoildude] #4113041 06/02/16 05:23 AM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Louvers are fine IF they are manufactured correctly. I have seen a few filters where the louvers were barely opened up, and would make me think twice about using those particular filters.

Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: crazyoildude] #4113050 06/02/16 06:02 AM
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Sayjac Offline
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Quote:
Im just curious if Fram, Wix, Motorcraft and some of the others are going to be using louvers?
Im not really a fan of louvers because i believe in some cases flow will suffer but i don't have any proof of that...

When you have some proof, authoritative scientific proof that is, feel free to present it on this board. Until then, much ado about nothing.

As for the question, I'm not aware of any Wix or Motorcraft insiders on this board that would know what will happen with their construction in the future, much less post it here.

Again though, even if any of the mentioned do go to louvers, they would just be joining long time louver manufacturers including Champ/(Rank) and Clarcor/Baldwin/Hastings.

But, if you want to continue to worry about it, certainly your right. Except I'm sure there some/many that might feel it's beating a dead horse now.

Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: crazyoildude] #4113057 06/02/16 06:29 AM
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KGMtech Offline
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Louvers are a better option from a manufacturing process, and it eliminates the risk of the punched hole slug making it into the inside of the filter.


2017.5 Nissan Rogue SV FWD
2013 Nissan Maxima SV
2009 Ford Flex SEL FWD
1984 Yamaha XJ750RL
Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: crazyoildude] #4113103 06/02/16 07:34 AM
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robo339 Offline
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horse


2014 f150 5.0 62K miles
Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: crazyoildude] #4113135 06/02/16 08:06 AM
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CapitalTruck Offline
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Hastings louvers are among the best I've ever seen, they've been doing it from the get go. If done correctly I think they provide for more open area. I would be really interested in what the GM tech has to say about those e-cores. I swear, there's a gap between the theory and the practice with those filters. They simply didn't perform as well in my Silverado as filters of other construction. The start of noise was for real. This is WITH the hybrid ACDelco variant.


2013 Silverado 4.8L VVT 4x4 97k mi - ACDelco Dexos Full Synthetic 5w30 (ExxonMobil variant), ACDelco PF48E
Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: KGMtech] #4113469 06/02/16 02:13 PM
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UG_Passat Offline
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Originally Posted By: KGMtech
Louvers are a better option from a manufacturing process, and it eliminates the risk of the punched hole slug making it into the inside of the filter.


Since the punching operation tends to be well separate from the filter assembly process, there are plenty of points for the punched metal to fall out.

From a manufacturing standpoint, they don't have to worry about cleaning up the machines and collecting the punched out metal for disposal/recycling.


2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: crazyoildude] #4113503 06/02/16 03:18 PM
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Nate1979 Offline
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Why would a manufacturer change when they have invested in the machines to punch the holes? Seems like a waste of capital to change a process unless there is an issue.


2015 GMC Sierra 2500 6.0L
2010 Subaru Forester 2.5X
Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: crazyoildude] #4113545 06/02/16 04:35 PM
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slacktide_bitog Offline
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They won't stop making ecores

Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: Nate1979] #4113553 06/02/16 04:59 PM
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KGMtech Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Why would a manufacturer change when they have invested in the machines to punch the holes? Seems like a waste of capital to change a process unless there is an issue.


The punches that make the holes are a nuisance to maintain, these break off in the tool, and the shrapnel does damage to the die. Louvers are easier for die maintenance, far less risk for the tooling pieces breaking off and walking through the die. Ask me how I know.

Stamping dies eventually wear out, so I suspect that the maker of the inner tube piece was contemplating a change in process that would be implemented when the old style pierced hold die was on its last legs.

My company used to run the tapping plates for Fram in Stratford Ontario...many OCOD ago laugh


2017.5 Nissan Rogue SV FWD
2013 Nissan Maxima SV
2009 Ford Flex SEL FWD
1984 Yamaha XJ750RL
Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: crazyoildude] #4113903 06/03/16 05:39 AM
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Garak Offline
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I'll see if I can remember to take a picture of the 51358 on my shelf. It looks like louvers to me, but the darned filter is pretty tiny to be peering inside. wink


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: crazyoildude] #4114721 06/04/16 04:07 AM
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Garak Offline
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These are down the centre tube of my latest Wix 51358. With a filter that size, I should be using a microscope and not a camera. wink




Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: Garak] #4114733 06/04/16 04:44 AM
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Sayjac Offline
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Those are some fine looking louvers. Also in the case of that specific Wix application, that makes the center tube design the same as the equivalent Nissan OEM with louvers made by Gonher and posted HERE not long ago. And as you've indicated previously you have no worries about a louvered design, you're good to go.


Re: Is Fram And Wix And Others Going to use Louvers? [Re: KGMtech] #4114734 06/04/16 04:44 AM
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Vern_in_IL Offline
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Originally Posted By: KGMtech
Louvers are a better option from a manufacturing process, and it eliminates the risk of the punched hole slug making it into the inside of the filter.


and eliminate waste, they don't have to deal with all those blanks from the punches. I'm guessing the louvers are patented.

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