Recent Topics
Why no love for M1 gear oils?
by zuluplus30 - 08/19/19 03:02 PM
2005 Chrysler 300 HEMI cam position sensor diagnosis
by 53' Stude - 08/19/19 02:38 PM
Noisy idle in gear but not neutral or park
by cwilliamsws6 - 08/19/19 02:30 PM
Driven 10W-30 conventional $28.63 case of 12
by Randy_R - 08/19/19 02:16 PM
What kind of cat is this? Warning, it's dead
by skyactiv - 08/19/19 02:09 PM
Ford Dealer wanted $320 to Flush Tranny
by Mr_Luke - 08/19/19 02:05 PM
Best retail product for convenience?
by buster - 08/19/19 01:42 PM
Shell Gas Truck oil...Im giving it a try...
by Navi - 08/19/19 01:10 PM
Quiet tire for 2018 Civic Hatchback
by Blue_Goose - 08/19/19 12:25 PM
SP-10 vs PAG-46 Compressor oil
by nwjones18 - 08/19/19 12:08 PM
Jeep's, Late YJ/Early TJ
by wings&wheels - 08/19/19 11:46 AM
Determining base oil composition
by Jimmy_Russells - 08/19/19 10:50 AM
Mobil ATF 320
by BlueSky - 08/19/19 10:34 AM
Question about diagnostic procedure
by Dave Sherman - 08/19/19 10:05 AM
1980 Yamaha MX175 Two stroke issue.
by Panzerman - 08/19/19 09:41 AM
Phillips 66 Choice BOGO @ Orscheln
by Pat in Speedway - 08/19/19 08:46 AM
Valvoline ME 0w20 $3 quart
by oldbird - 08/19/19 08:19 AM
What to do with core MAF air flow sensor
by PeterGreen - 08/19/19 07:47 AM
Newest Members
serhat, BlueSky, 444samc, Espada, samhainlimon
68998 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
114 registered members (53' Stude, 2010Civic, another Todd, 444samc, 2009Edge, 14Accent, 10 invisible), 2,458 guests, and 25 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics293,526
Posts5,041,689
Members68,998
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Brake Pads White Paper #4112671 06/01/16 05:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,292
MolaKule Offline OP
Global Moderator
OP Offline
Global Moderator
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,292

Last edited by MolaKule; 06/01/16 05:56 PM.

The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: MolaKule] #4112692 06/01/16 06:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,538
B
bbhero Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,538
Well I have questions about this. One is that I have Akebono Performance street brakes pads on my front brakes of my Altima. They have a GG friction rating which means they have a higher coefficient of friction at both hot and cool temps. So are the pads semi metallic or ceramic? I believe they are actually ceramic pads. Also, I be read that the pads rated GG very rarely get overheated or fade. Just seems to run contrary to what this paper states. I'm going to check about these pads and see IF they are ceramic.

Yep these Akebono Street performance brakes are advertised as ceramic brake pads. I just verified that from AAP. So, maybe they are actually a mix of both and that they aren't truly all ceramic or is it they are all ceramic?? Makes me wonder. And aren't GG rated brake pads have a higher coefficient of friction than say EE or FF?? I'm just curious now. Because those letters represent cold and hot performance.

Last edited by bbhero; 06/01/16 06:40 PM.

Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Carquest High mileage full synthetic 5w30
CQ blue 84356 Oil filter
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: MolaKule] #4112705 06/01/16 06:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,300
B
BigD1 Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,300
Yes GG is higher on cold and hot than FF, EE, and etc. For my daily drivers, FF is pretty dang good, and is considered a premium brake.


1992 Toyota Pickup--Quaker State Advanced Durability 10W-30--Motorcraft 910S
Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: BigD1] #4112721 06/01/16 07:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,538
B
bbhero Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,538
Well if GG rated brakes have a higher coefficient of friction than wouldn't they stop a vehicle say 10-20 feet shorter going from 70 mph to a dead stop? And that could easily be the difference between hitting a car in front of you or not making contact at all. The Akebono Street performance brakes were $72 for a front set. Really only $25 more than the FF rated AAP ceramics. Not much more at the end of the day if you think about it.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Carquest High mileage full synthetic 5w30
CQ blue 84356 Oil filter
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: MolaKule] #4113016 06/02/16 04:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,146
D
dlundblad Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,146
All this time I thought semi metallic created the most dust.

My Jeep has been suffering from excessive front brake dust ever since I put the mid grade Oreilly pads on back in 2011. I know it isnt my caliper slide pins because both calipers are fairly new.

I can't wait to put my Akebono ProACTs on. (Rock Auto clearance - $25 per axle)


Last edited by dlundblad; 06/02/16 04:42 AM.

03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: bbhero] #4113025 06/02/16 05:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,996
M
mjoekingz28 Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,996
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well if GG rated brakes have a higher coefficient of friction than wouldn't they stop a vehicle say 10-20 feet shorter going from 70 mph to a dead stop? And that could easily be the difference between hitting a car in front of you or not making contact at all. The Akebono Street performance brakes were $72 for a front set. Really only $25 more than the FF rated AAP ceramics. Not much more at the end of the day if you think about it.




Correct! Maybe prices will be low enough where some can buy what they want and not just get whatever has the lowest initial cost in the bottom line on the bill of laden.



Costs are upside down to some. They seemingly will drive across thecounty to save a nickel per gallon on gasoline.



Bite when cold and bite when warm are important to consider. Bite when hot is probably not since the streets do not resemble the superspeedways.

Low dust, environmental smells and breathing the asbestos into our lungs are other factors to look into.

Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: bbhero] #4113284 06/02/16 11:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,653
J
Jetronic Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,653
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well if GG rated brakes have a higher coefficient of friction than wouldn't they stop a vehicle say 10-20 feet shorter going from 70 mph to a dead stop? And that could easily be the difference between hitting a car in front of you or not making contact at all. The Akebono Street performance brakes were $72 for a front set. Really only $25 more than the FF rated AAP ceramics. Not much more at the end of the day if you think about it.


No, the limit is always tyre traction. What you get is more ABS action with higher friction rating.

But all the guys buying the highest friction rating brakes use 80,000 mile tyres...

Last edited by Jetronic; 06/02/16 11:58 AM.

AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus Prime 2 215/50R17 (front)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato 225/45R17 (rear)
Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: Jetronic] #4113529 06/02/16 05:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 150
H
HighViscosity Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 150
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
[quote=bbhero]

No, the limit is always tyre traction. What you get is more ABS action with higher friction rating.

But all the guys buying the highest friction rating brakes use 80,000 mile tyres...


LOL LOL LOL Thats a great observation, and is very true. Another BITOG pearl of wisdom pops into existence.


I said Dance! shoot...................... happy

These are the good old days!
Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: Jetronic] #4115466 06/04/16 11:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,538
B
bbhero Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,538
So the coefficient of friction does not matter at all?? The tire part is understood and granted. I will definitely say this with zero hesitation... my car brakes WAY better with these GG rated brakes when going from 105 mph down to 50 mph than the prior brakes. No judder. Smooth as can be. I also find i can drive into corners a far amount farther with these brake pads as well.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Carquest High mileage full synthetic 5w30
CQ blue 84356 Oil filter
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: MolaKule] #4115498 06/05/16 02:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,027
C
Colt45ws Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,027
Its more a thing after repeated stops when it starts fading. But, a single panic stop is going to hit the limit of the tires first.


-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 86k
Pennzoil Conv HM 5W30, Fram XG2
Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: Colt45ws] #4115871 06/05/16 02:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,538
B
bbhero Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,538
Well yeah that's understandable and valid no doubt. I know that's why it's rated at cool and hot temps. All things being equal does the higher coefficient really matter in cold stops? It would seem to be that if tires are properly inflated, have good traction, not raining cats and dogs.... does it make a difference with the higher rating when cold? It just would make zero sense if it didn't matter at all. Then why bother with the first part of the rating? Why bother even mentioning the higher coefficient numbers if it doesn't matter whether it be cool at all?

It used to be in NASCAR races at Martinsville, Richmond and Riverside that brakes were a real issue. Furthermore, if someone had a better brake package they could drive deeper into the turn and out brake their competitors and make a pass. The best the brakes were at the beginning of the day. Whoever had the "best" brakes at the end of the day had a good chance to win. So, this would have been demonstrating the cool/hot function of the brakes. The better brakes I would surmise have had a higher coefficient of friction in both temperatures. Aka giving better stopping power or ability to drive with more speed into a turn. Whether it be cool or very hot.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Carquest High mileage full synthetic 5w30
CQ blue 84356 Oil filter
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Brake Pads White Paper [Re: MolaKule] #4116766 06/06/16 12:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,653
J
Jetronic Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,653
It matters in the amount of effort you have to put on the brake pedal.

Now if your car has a tendency to trigger the ABS on the rear axle first, you could fit a higher friction rating at the front, or a lower rating at the rear and end up with better performing brakes.

But with repeated heavy braking (like racing) you're likely to go way beyond the hot spec as seen on roadgoing pads, and it then comes down to the useable temperature range. Even Nascar cars have enough brake power to lock those slicks up any time they want...


AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus Prime 2 215/50R17 (front)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato 225/45R17 (rear)
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™