Recent Topics
Any news on what happened to this plane?
by Exhaustgases
Today at 02:36 AM
E4OD fluid ?
by Exhaustgases
Today at 02:23 AM
Update password ?
by meadows
Yesterday at 11:59 PM
Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder
by Reddy45
Yesterday at 11:56 PM
Nissan DLR put 0w20 in car that specs 5w30. worry?
by CrAlt
Yesterday at 10:40 PM
revive Nicd battery
by Donald
Yesterday at 10:27 PM
Need help finding an apartment for friend
by RazorsEdge
Yesterday at 10:07 PM
ceratec with redline 5w30?
by 08z06
Yesterday at 09:53 PM
does your COMCAST modem have weak wifi??
by edwardh1
Yesterday at 09:50 PM
I hate stuck thermostats
by jakewells
Yesterday at 09:49 PM
Mag1 75w90
by SavagePatch
Yesterday at 09:32 PM
Old batteries at HD
by bbhero
Yesterday at 09:27 PM
Buying a CPO Toyota - still get inspected?
by Parlay_Slow
Yesterday at 09:08 PM
Water Pump Paper Gasket With RTV? Longevity?
by nobb
Yesterday at 08:22 PM
Who makes Briggs & Stratton oil?
by spk2000
Yesterday at 08:13 PM
Shure stylus replacement
by aquariuscsm
Yesterday at 07:54 PM
Any 'crazy UCL overdose' fans out there?
by addyguy
Yesterday at 07:11 PM
Source for Castrol Edge Supercar 5w50 oil?
by Rainier42
Yesterday at 06:50 PM
Cherry vs orange hand cleaner
by JHZR2
Yesterday at 06:27 PM
Why buy low mileage tires?
by HowAboutThis
Yesterday at 05:49 PM
Newest Members
mostdecent, T1TN, Piper58, dunlop0078, Truth_Syrup
65258 Registered Users
Who's Online
26 registered (Char Baby, d00df00d, Buzzinhalfdozen, BoiseBound, Brad_C, 3 invisible), 691 Guests and 29 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65258 Members
67 Forums
285504 Topics
4764711 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#4109205 - 05/28/16 08:08 PM Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count
bulwnkl Offline


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1739
Loc: Arizona
This is their MA-rated shared-sump fluid. I did a particle count only, on the new-in-the-bottle fluid. I have a UOA in the motorcycle section, too. Particle count there is noticeably cleaner:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4107645/Honda_NC700X_Red_Line_10W30


4 mic 29178
6 mic 9931
14 mic 497
21 mic 131
38 mic 16
70 mic 6
ISO 22/20/16

Top
#4109214 - 05/28/16 08:15 PM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: bulwnkl]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39824
Loc: 'Stralia
Thanks for posting.

That and your UOA provides another really good data point on fiters and their effect.

I'm always going to change the filter a couple of weeks after changing the oil now.

Top
#4109280 - 05/28/16 09:23 PM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: Shannow]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4325
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Thanks for posting.

That and your UOA provides another really good data point on fiters and their effect.

I'm always going to change the filter a couple of weeks after changing the oil now.


Well, yeh....BUT.....the obvious, if naive, questions seem to be...

(a) SHOULD it have so many bits in it out of the bottle?
(b) Is it NORMAL? (similar question, but not the same).
(c) WHAT are they?

My understanding was that 4 microns is too small to be removed by a new standard oil filter, but I suppose a used one might be able to trap them.



Edited by Ducked (05/28/16 09:29 PM)

Top
#4109283 - 05/28/16 09:28 PM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: bulwnkl]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5506
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Agglomerations?
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

Top
#4109290 - 05/28/16 09:31 PM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: BrocLuno]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4325
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Agglomerations?


If that's the case, they might go back into solution in use, in which case filter performance is irrelevant.

Top
#4109315 - 05/28/16 10:09 PM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: Shannow]
bulwnkl Offline


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1739
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Thanks for posting.

That and your UOA provides another really good data point on fiters and their effect.

I'm always going to change the filter a couple of weeks after changing the oil now.


You're welcome. smile

As to the filter change-- Eh... One could do that, and the old filter may filter better than a new one, but then one would 're-contaminate' the sump (in terms of particle count) with the new make-up oil when the filter is changed. It may or may not be worthwhile. For me, it's needlessly fiddly. Perhaps you should share some particle counts from your new strategy. smile

Top
#4109319 - 05/28/16 10:15 PM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: Ducked]
bulwnkl Offline


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1739
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: Ducked


(a) SHOULD it have so many bits in it out of the bottle?
(b) Is it NORMAL? (similar question, but not the same).
(c) WHAT are they?

My understanding was that 4 microns is too small to be removed by a new standard oil filter, but I suppose a used one might be able to trap them.



It is normal. Some blenders or marketers deliver cleaner oil, some dirtier, but it's surprising to most how not-clean 'new' oil is.

Top
#4109338 - 05/28/16 10:50 PM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: bulwnkl]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39824
Loc: 'Stralia
Yeah, we learned a long time ago that the hydraulics on the turbine bypass needed filtering down to 5um on the way out of the drum, or we could never keep the system in spec.

Here's some of Stinky Peterson's VOAs with particle count.

Some blenders do a MUCH better job, and some only on their professional range.




Top
#4109350 - 05/28/16 11:02 PM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: bulwnkl]
bulwnkl Offline


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1739
Loc: Arizona
Quite. I believe it is fair to say that we can expect 'run-of-the-mill' consumer motor oils to be fairly dirty.

Top
#4109400 - 05/29/16 12:10 AM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: bulwnkl]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4325
Loc: Taiwan
So this is "dirt" (which I take to be mostly silica unless from an unusual source) rather than something derived from the oil, as in "agglomerates" above?

I vaguely remember a Morgan driver (I think) long ago saying something like "You don't put THAT stuff in your engine, do you? referring to Castrol GTX straight from the can.

Something about filtering it through chamois leather before use, which I'd have thought would be impossibly slow.

Top
#4109404 - 05/29/16 12:20 AM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: bulwnkl]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39824
Loc: 'Stralia
Thus my change the filter some weeks after the OCI...the filter is at it's best filtering at that point, and get the junk from the bottle out ASAP.

the residual has some partially reacted additives in it, so should be better than virgin oil at that point (wear wise, not contaminant)

Top
#4109421 - 05/29/16 01:24 AM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: Shannow]
BobFout Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 3189
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Thus my change the filter some weeks after the OCI...the filter is at it's best filtering at that point, and get the junk from the bottle out ASAP.

the residual has some partially reacted additives in it, so should be better than virgin oil at that point (wear wise, not contaminant)


Isn't this an exercise in diminishing returns? You could change your oil and filter every 3 months / 5,000 km and not have any meaningful additional wear compared to what you describe? Or is this the difference between an engine that requires a rebuild at 500K km vs. 300K km?
_________________________
2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T

Top
#4109425 - 05/29/16 02:11 AM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: BobFout]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39824
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Isn't this an exercise in diminishing returns? You could change your oil and filter every 3 months / 5,000 km and not have any meaningful additional wear compared to what you describe? Or is this the difference between an engine that requires a rebuild at 500K km vs. 300K km?


Almost certainly...

But it's no skin off my nose if I change the filter a month after the oil...I'll be checking something or pumping tyres at that point anyway.

explained more a few weeks ago

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4096319/New_oil_change_regime_-_half_c

Top
#4109430 - 05/29/16 03:08 AM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: bulwnkl]
Jetronic Offline


Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 3653
Loc: down in the park
Yes I decided to do a similar thing (though I go 2 oil changes with 1 filter).

I was reading the toilet paper filter thread yesterday. Very interesting and fairly cheap, but there's no rom at all under my hood and I don't want long oil lines external of the engine.
_________________________
AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus Prime 2 215/50R17 (front)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato 225/45R17 (rear)

Top
#4109657 - 05/29/16 10:19 AM Re: Red Line 10W30 Motorcycle oil particle count [Re: Ducked]
bulwnkl Offline


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1739
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: Ducked
So this is "dirt" (which I take to be mostly silica unless from an unusual source)


Why would you assume that? Do you see high silicon in short-duration UOAs, but lower in longer-duration ones? I don't.

Some may be 'dirt,' but I suppose a lot of it is 'stuff' in the plumbing, both at the blender and up- and down-stream.

Particle counts are super-inexpensive, so it wouldn't be tough (expensive) to track particle counts across the early portion of an OCI, if a person wanted to _know_, rather than blindly speculating based on non-automotive, non-engine, non-consumer-cost-effective notions. Then again, one would still be speculating as to how much, or even whether, those particle counts were causing any wear or issues that ever would or even could show up in the life of their vehicle.

I did what I did because of the transmission portion of this sump, even though I suspected the filter would 'mask' much of the utility. I then did the count on the clean fluid because, again, it's super cheap, and I don't mind sharing here.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >