Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot!

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Doing my trans filter for the first time on this car (actually my first ever) and I can't get the filter seal to seat into the slot.

The new WIX 58822 is the the right filter for my 2002 (AX4N). The old filter that come out was pretty grimy as was the bottom of the pan. I expected the old seal to remain in the bore and I wasn't disappointed. I had a pick and needle nose pliers to pry it out as the procedure suggested. But there were no metal rings in the seal. It looked like plain old soft orange rubber. Maybe the plastic aged and it softened up. Normally, these seals should pop out or come out in one piece. I spent an hour picking rubber pieces off the bore, then cleaning it up with wire brush and round file.

According to the procedure the filter should just pop up easily into its seat. It wasn't moving into it at all for me. Not even enough for the filter to hang in position on its own. I then tried some force with a rubber mallet and piece of wood. Nope. Then I tried the same thing with a small jack and no luck. In fact the car started to lift and that seal wouldn't slip into the bore.

Measuring the old and new filter dimensions the filter necks are identical. But this new seal looks wider to me. It's made of green plastic.

I did not expect the filter to screw me up. My other car is now blocked in the garage so I can't move the cars to go get another one. I could probably push the car off the ramps into the road and then push back off to the side. But would need to seal the transmission again to drive the car back onto the ramps.

Suggestions on the seal? I can just not put the filter on for now and do that in 1-2 days when I figure out what's up with the seal. Or I can cut the new seal off and use teflon tape or something to seal the neck for now? What's the risk for seal particles to start degrading and floating around the transmission? The width of that seal on the filter neck is approx 1/32", so that's a lot of taping.

I spent a lot of time making sure I knew the ins and outs of this filter change and flush....to no avail.

Lincoln filter and flush procedure
 
As long as you got the old ring and seal out. Sometimes you really have to pry it out with a screwdriver. The new one should just snuggly in with very little force. Lube up the filter seal. You could try inserting the seal by itself then pushing the filter into it. I've done that before. It shouldn't take alot of pressure.
 
Does your new filter look like this:

290-00029921B-2.jpg


5wz1io.jpg


I had the same transmission in my 2003 Mercury Sable, and that's the filter I used when I did the change. Should go in without too much hassle if that's what you're using. If it looks different, then if I were you, I'd find an Autozone nearby and go buy a kit.
 
After reading your post again. I think the ring is still in there. It's in the hole. Run a screwdriver around and a hook driver if you have one. They get pretty stuck up there and will not come out easily.
 
Sir Tanon, that's the filter. It's identical in all respects to what came out. The only difference is the new one has a seal left, and the old seal came off in the bore. The filter came out very easily, minus the orange seal. Like I said, it's like soft rubber. I worked that bore for an hour to remove all traces of orange rubber. It's smooth metal now. The old filter w/o a seal wobbles easily in that bore and will not stay up. So I'm pretty sure all the old seal is out.

Tried to swivel the seal off the new filter but it didn't budge at all. I can wrap with cloth and apply vice grips and see if it pops out.
 
That is very odd. There are tons of google hits and even You tube videos showing a medal ring as part of the rubber seal. I.E. http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/98-solut...hange-ax4n.html Excellent before and after pics of the seal and hole. The Youtube video shows the new filter fitting up into the hole with very little pressure.

Any indication that someone inserted the wrong filter into the box??

Good luck.

Picture from my link:
IMG_2144.jpg


It seems that many just scrape out the inside rubber part of the metal/rubber seal:
quote:

"F that green seal! Here's a little note: it's a rubber coated metal piece. I thought the green piece had compressed and melted to the trans housing. I scraped endlessly trying to clear all the green off and cleaning the area. I was really [censored] it didn't come out in one piece. The new filter would not fit! It was too big to go in the hole in the trans. I was really [censored]. We tried using petroleum jelly to slide it in, but that didn't help. So out came the BFH.

I was beating on the new filter trying to get the new filter in and cursing NAPA for designing a poor part and cursing the write-up for making it look so easy. So the filter went back to NAPA and got my money back after explaining to them it wouldn't fit. Then went to AutoZone and got a generic trans filter kit (made by Champion Labs in Taiwan). Tried to install that and beat on it still and it still wouldn't go on. At this point, my dad gave me the ol' "I told you so" speech and how I should have taken it to a shop. I'm kind of starting to regret it too since if I can't get this thing back together, I'd have to get it towed to a shop and then lose a day at work.

Then looking at the new filter I see some metal shining where the green had broken at the top from the beating. Well, I felt like a retard. I took a small screwdriver, jammed it at the top of the "trans housing" in the hole and the stupid sleeve popped out. God I felt stupid. The write-up made it sound like it was a large rubber piece that would come by prying from the bottom! Anyways, got that piece out, stuck the filter in (and kicking myself for getting rid of the NAPA filter which seemed like better quality), and popped the pan back on."


With seal removed:
87D1D218-6882-4F69-8DBF-DE94724BB89E-26053-0000052846C7B1D4_zps8bcd0dcc.jpg
 
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Got the seal off and tried it into the bore by itself. While it goes in to the first flange seat, there's half of it sticking out. When I try to put filter on it, it can't support that weight and the filter falls. Tried that seal on the old filter, same result. So it's the seal. Even tried hammering it up with a board across it. Seems like it's only 1/2 way up into position. I would think that seal should fully disappear once fully into position.

I tried the seal in both orientations and it only stays with the thicker side in first. The other end has a notched ring. I'm not sure which of those should be the seal point. The notched thinner end was oriented down when the filter was received.


I thought this might be the first time the trans filter came out but didn't see the factory dip stick plug floating around in there.
 
The .490" green seal does not replace the orange seal, it wont fit.
Some seals are .420" it sounds like yours uses the smaller diameter. Take a trip to the parts store, don't try and force it in.
 
Thanks for that link Doitmyself. I'll look again but I was poking and prying with a tiny screw driver and metal mouth pick and I never saw metal as part of the seal. I have the same new green plastic seal as that video shows and it looks 100% hard but pliable plastic. The procedure I original posted shows the same issue with the metal ring of the seal separating. Never saw that. The bore interior shows the double stepped flanges.

I'll go out and look at it all again. The fact that the seal moves easily to new and old filter says it's not the filter. It's either the wrong seal, or me screwing up somehow.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
The .490" green seal does not replace the orange seal, it wont fit.
Some seals are .420" it sounds like yours uses the smaller diameter. Take a trip to the parts store, don't try and force it in.


I lifted the front of the car off that green seal with my jack. That was plenty of force....lol. So that might be it. So the green one might be for different AX4N's? What came out my car was orange. If I didn't know better I'd have swore it was just orange putty.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
The .490" green seal does not replace the orange seal, it wont fit.
Some seals are .420" it sounds like yours uses the smaller diameter. Take a trip to the parts store, don't try and force it in.

Grrrr. I hate when this happens! The difference of a DIYer and a mechanic with many hours under the belt! LOL. Good of you to pop in TRAV and set things straight. I lucked out when I did my daughter's car...green seal out, green seal in.

Page 3 of this link has the two Ford part numbers: http://www.shinseiauto.com/japanese/transtar/usfordax4n04.pdf

86010E Orange/ 86010H Green
 
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Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: Trav
The .490" green seal does not replace the orange seal, it wont fit.
Some seals are .420" it sounds like yours uses the smaller diameter. Take a trip to the parts store, don't try and force it in.


I lifted the front of the car off that green seal with my jack. That was plenty of force....lol. So that might be it. So the green one might be for different AX4N's? What came out my car was orange. If I didn't know better I'd have swore it was just orange putty.


There are a few different ones, They make a .490" green and orange but one in thicker than the other, there are also the .420" ones.
Orange out orange in, green out green, in don't mix them. the correct seal will fit snug but go right in with a little pressure.
AFAIK there is none that uses a metal lip seal that gets installed in the case first in that unit.
 
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The dimensions on the green seal are approx 1-1/8" OD. The thickness is nearly 1/8th inch. Under a magnifying glass I see the alternating metal strips in there. It's possible I removed every bid of old orange plastic and left just the shiny metal part. The bore is pretty straight the way it is now. If something else still needs to come out, that would leave another lip or flange in that bore. I pried some more in there with the metal pick and there's nothing to grab on to. It feels like a smooth metal bore. With all the poking I did in there today I probably damaged some of the seating surfaces as it is.

I'll call West Springfield Auto Parts in the morning and have them check their inventory and this issue of green vs. orange.
 
The O'Reilly page shows your originally purchased WIX 58822 as an orange seal, as does the WIX site. So, maybe you got the wrong filter in the right box? If that's the case, they should supply a new one for free.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search...8&make=Ford

Check your box before leaving the store. Good luck!!!! Relax tonight and chock it up to "the way it happens sometimes". I'll have a shot of scotch tonight on your behalf.
 
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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
The O'Reilly page shows your originally purchased WIX 58822 as an orange seal, as does the WIX site. So, maybe you got the wrong filter in the right box? If that's the case, they should supply a new one for free.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search...8&make=Ford

Check your box before leaving the store. Good luck!!!! Relax tonight and chock it up to "the way it happens sometimes". I'll have a shot of scotch tonight on your behalf.



Sometimes it is that simple. The filter housing is stamped WIX 58815 and the box from WSAP is labeled 58822. Sheesh! I ordered the 58822 and never once thought of checking the filter casing. In fact, I wouldn't have expected it to be stamped with a Wix part # as they all come from China for the most part.

I guess, filters are not simple. Next time I will check the part number of the item itself. I do remember looking at the filter when it first come out of the box. It was wrapped in semi-transparent plastic making it nearly impossible to read the faint writing on it. So I didn't make the effort. It stayed sealed. When the 2 filters matched identically when I had the old one off, I still saw no "need" to check. Another lesson learned for the do it myselfer. I also did notice the green seal wasn't the same as the orange seal in my posted video. Why should color matter? Wrong answer! Had I just waited a day and got my fluid somewhere else, the odds favored I'd have been given the correct filer at NAPA/AAP/AZ. Funny, how a turn here or there sets you up.

Everything is apparently the same between the old and new filters, except that seal. The one they gave me fits Taurus/Windstar, but not for any Continental. I could also see you getting the right filter, but the wrong seal. This will probably be the only time I ever change the trans filter in this car......good riddance.
 
I also tried to use my new $6.98 Harbor Freight vacuum pump to partially empty the trans pan. After a few pumps it was only air...no more than a cup or two. That didn't work as planned. It was as if something was obstructing it. It did help a little bit when getting ready to drop the pan and getting another quart or two out of there before dropping it.
 
Next time go to your local Ford dealer parts department armed with your VIN, Less likely to end up with the wrong part.

I'm not bashing Ford....But, Man they LOVE to make changes right in the middle of production & Different Plants using different parts even though they make the same component.
 
I called the Ford Dealer. When they wanted 3X the price for parts vs everyone else, I looked to the auto stores. Even Ford can put the wrong filter in the right box. I'm sure every major retail distributor has done it at one time or another. This is a first for me getting caught though. I'm usually pretty anal about verifying what I get. The filter and gasket looked just like what I had seen in that video. I was anal enough to take a drawing of that gasket with me and verify it there at the store. I just blew it on the "simple" filter. 45 years of doing filters around the car and not once before did they not fit. A lesson learned at age 62.

In fact, when I made that order over the phone I told the manager to go back in the parts room, open the box and ensure the gasket is rubber and not cork. It wasn't clear from the drawing that it was rubber. After 5-10 seconds of silence on the phone I told the guy if you want this $100 order for filter and fluid you need to do that. He said the photo looked like rubber to him. Finally he want back and checked and verified the rubber gasket. So they got the order. I was prepared to go somewhere else if they didn't want to verify it. I've driven 15-50 miles too many times and found out what they had wasn't what I needed or wanted. Ironically, my OEM molded rubber gasket is in nice condition so I'm reusing it. Had I known that going in, I'd have probably been ok paying $35 for the Ford "Chinese" trans filter....the gasket was an extra $40 if you wanted one, not part of the kit.
 
Called the dealer first thing this morning. They checked the other 58822 filter in stock and it's correctly labeled on both box and filter, orange seal too! Simply put, someone put the wrong filter in the right box.

So now I'm waiting for a call back from West Springfield Auto Parts to see if they will divert from "company policy" and deliver it to my home/non-business account. Initially they said it wasn't their fault, they only sell what is sent to them from the manufacturers...and I could navigate the 15 miles to their store to pick it up. Waiting.....

Call back occurred and they absolutely refuse to bring the part to me. And they have no business customers near me. All their vehicles are out on the road, yada yada yada. I have to have someone else go get it or pay $. And these jokers even want the old filter in hand (or a 2nd payment) before releasing the right one. So whoever I arrange to pick that filter for me has to pay for it. What a day.
 
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