Recent Topics
modem in 1 room want phone in another room
by raaizin - 08/21/19 02:17 PM
AC Belt Question
by BISCUT - 08/21/19 02:10 PM
Pros and cons of Electronic Parking Brakes?
by KGMtech - 08/21/19 01:50 PM
Got my first BS sample kit - now what?
by ARCOgraphite - 08/21/19 01:00 PM
2016 Mazda6: no belt replacement interval
by Elkins45 - 08/21/19 01:00 PM
Replaced alternator but kept belt
by Deontologist - 08/21/19 12:51 PM
NapaGold 1348 c&p, 7+yr.OPE fci.
by Sayjac - 08/21/19 12:38 PM
Toyo Proxes ST3
by Redright9 - 08/21/19 12:20 PM
Do you trust air filling stations?
by walterjay - 08/21/19 12:10 PM
Someone explain this part of youtube.
by atikovi - 08/21/19 10:48 AM
Help choosing suspension/steering parts '04 Ranger
by Patrologia - 08/21/19 10:43 AM
2006 V8 Sequoia 264K M1 5w30; 7700 miles on oil
by claluja - 08/21/19 09:48 AM
Meguiars Hyper Dressing
by buster - 08/21/19 09:46 AM
Is it really M1 ESP X1 0W30?
by 21Rouge - 08/21/19 09:33 AM
WWYD? Battery Choice - 2015 Canyon
by WylieCoyote - 08/21/19 09:27 AM
Bypass Orifice
by Bailes1992 - 08/21/19 09:23 AM
VW Plastic Oil Drain Plugs
by dishdude - 08/21/19 09:22 AM
Newest Members
Sissen, Luke352, drh214, Levinz11, tequilla50
69019 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
104 registered members (1978elcamino, aircooled, 2015_PSD, Ada_Potato, akela, 7 invisible), 2,286 guests, and 21 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics293,610
Posts5,043,344
Members69,019
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! #4106532 05/25/16 06:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
69GTX Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
Doing my trans filter for the first time on this car (actually my first ever) and I can't get the filter seal to seat into the slot.

The new WIX 58822 is the the right filter for my 2002 (AX4N). The old filter that come out was pretty grimy as was the bottom of the pan. I expected the old seal to remain in the bore and I wasn't disappointed. I had a pick and needle nose pliers to pry it out as the procedure suggested. But there were no metal rings in the seal. It looked like plain old soft orange rubber. Maybe the plastic aged and it softened up. Normally, these seals should pop out or come out in one piece. I spent an hour picking rubber pieces off the bore, then cleaning it up with wire brush and round file.

According to the procedure the filter should just pop up easily into its seat. It wasn't moving into it at all for me. Not even enough for the filter to hang in position on its own. I then tried some force with a rubber mallet and piece of wood. Nope. Then I tried the same thing with a small jack and no luck. In fact the car started to lift and that seal wouldn't slip into the bore.

Measuring the old and new filter dimensions the filter necks are identical. But this new seal looks wider to me. It's made of green plastic.

I did not expect the filter to screw me up. My other car is now blocked in the garage so I can't move the cars to go get another one. I could probably push the car off the ramps into the road and then push back off to the side. But would need to seal the transmission again to drive the car back onto the ramps.

Suggestions on the seal? I can just not put the filter on for now and do that in 1-2 days when I figure out what's up with the seal. Or I can cut the new seal off and use teflon tape or something to seal the neck for now? What's the risk for seal particles to start degrading and floating around the transmission? The width of that seal on the filter neck is approx 1/32", so that's a lot of taping.

I spent a lot of time making sure I knew the ins and outs of this filter change and flush....to no avail.

Lincoln filter and flush procedure


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 50K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: 69GTX] #4106533 05/25/16 06:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,232
P
Panzerman Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,232
As long as you got the old ring and seal out. Sometimes you really have to pry it out with a screwdriver. The new one should just snuggly in with very little force. Lube up the filter seal. You could try inserting the seal by itself then pushing the filter into it. I've done that before. It shouldn't take alot of pressure.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: 69GTX] #4106534 05/25/16 06:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,116
S
SirTanon Online Content
Online Content
S
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,116
Does your new filter look like this:





I had the same transmission in my 2003 Mercury Sable, and that's the filter I used when I did the change. Should go in without too much hassle if that's what you're using. If it looks different, then if I were you, I'd find an Autozone nearby and go buy a kit.


2013 Nissan Altima SV - 2.5 liter/CVT - 118,000mi
2014 Nissan Altima SL - 2.5 liter/CVT - 67,000mi
2010 Ford Fusion - 274,500mi
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: 69GTX] #4106536 05/25/16 06:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,232
P
Panzerman Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,232
After reading your post again. I think the ring is still in there. It's in the hole. Run a screwdriver around and a hook driver if you have one. They get pretty stuck up there and will not come out easily.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: Panzerman] #4106542 05/25/16 06:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
69GTX Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
Sir Tanon, that's the filter. It's identical in all respects to what came out. The only difference is the new one has a seal left, and the old seal came off in the bore. The filter came out very easily, minus the orange seal. Like I said, it's like soft rubber. I worked that bore for an hour to remove all traces of orange rubber. It's smooth metal now. The old filter w/o a seal wobbles easily in that bore and will not stay up. So I'm pretty sure all the old seal is out.

Tried to swivel the seal off the new filter but it didn't budge at all. I can wrap with cloth and apply vice grips and see if it pops out.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 50K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: 69GTX] #4106554 05/25/16 06:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,983
D
doitmyself Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,983
That is very odd. There are tons of google hits and even You tube videos showing a medal ring as part of the rubber seal. I.E. http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/98-solut...hange-ax4n.html Excellent before and after pics of the seal and hole. The Youtube video shows the new filter fitting up into the hole with very little pressure.

Any indication that someone inserted the wrong filter into the box??

Good luck.

Picture from my link:


It seems that many just scrape out the inside rubber part of the metal/rubber seal:
quote:

"F that green seal! Here's a little note: it's a rubber coated metal piece. I thought the green piece had compressed and melted to the trans housing. I scraped endlessly trying to clear all the green off and cleaning the area. I was really [censored] it didn't come out in one piece. The new filter would not fit! It was too big to go in the hole in the trans. I was really [censored]. We tried using petroleum jelly to slide it in, but that didn't help. So out came the BFH.

I was beating on the new filter trying to get the new filter in and cursing NAPA for designing a poor part and cursing the write-up for making it look so easy. So the filter went back to NAPA and got my money back after explaining to them it wouldn't fit. Then went to AutoZone and got a generic trans filter kit (made by Champion Labs in Taiwan). Tried to install that and beat on it still and it still wouldn't go on. At this point, my dad gave me the ol' "I told you so" speech and how I should have taken it to a shop. I'm kind of starting to regret it too since if I can't get this thing back together, I'd have to get it towed to a shop and then lose a day at work.

Then looking at the new filter I see some metal shining where the green had broken at the top from the beating. Well, I felt like a retard. I took a small screwdriver, jammed it at the top of the "trans housing" in the hole and the stupid sleeve popped out. God I felt stupid. The write-up made it sound like it was a large rubber piece that would come by prying from the bottom! Anyways, got that piece out, stuck the filter in (and kicking myself for getting rid of the NAPA filter which seemed like better quality), and popped the pan back on."


With seal removed:

Last edited by doitmyself; 05/25/16 06:53 PM.
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: 69GTX] #4106559 05/25/16 06:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
69GTX Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
Got the seal off and tried it into the bore by itself. While it goes in to the first flange seat, there's half of it sticking out. When I try to put filter on it, it can't support that weight and the filter falls. Tried that seal on the old filter, same result. So it's the seal. Even tried hammering it up with a board across it. Seems like it's only 1/2 way up into position. I would think that seal should fully disappear once fully into position.

I tried the seal in both orientations and it only stays with the thicker side in first. The other end has a notched ring. I'm not sure which of those should be the seal point. The notched thinner end was oriented down when the filter was received.


I thought this might be the first time the trans filter came out but didn't see the factory dip stick plug floating around in there.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 50K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: 69GTX] #4106563 05/25/16 06:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,211
T
Trav Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,211
The .490" green seal does not replace the orange seal, it wont fit.
Some seals are .420" it sounds like yours uses the smaller diameter. Take a trip to the parts store, don't try and force it in.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: 69GTX] #4106568 05/25/16 06:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
69GTX Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
Thanks for that link Doitmyself. I'll look again but I was poking and prying with a tiny screw driver and metal mouth pick and I never saw metal as part of the seal. I have the same new green plastic seal as that video shows and it looks 100% hard but pliable plastic. The procedure I original posted shows the same issue with the metal ring of the seal separating. Never saw that. The bore interior shows the double stepped flanges.

I'll go out and look at it all again. The fact that the seal moves easily to new and old filter says it's not the filter. It's either the wrong seal, or me screwing up somehow.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 50K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: Trav] #4106571 05/25/16 06:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
69GTX Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
Originally Posted By: Trav
The .490" green seal does not replace the orange seal, it wont fit.
Some seals are .420" it sounds like yours uses the smaller diameter. Take a trip to the parts store, don't try and force it in.


I lifted the front of the car off that green seal with my jack. That was plenty of force....lol. So that might be it. So the green one might be for different AX4N's? What came out my car was orange. If I didn't know better I'd have swore it was just orange putty.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 50K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: Trav] #4106573 05/25/16 07:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,983
D
doitmyself Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,983
Originally Posted By: Trav
The .490" green seal does not replace the orange seal, it wont fit.
Some seals are .420" it sounds like yours uses the smaller diameter. Take a trip to the parts store, don't try and force it in.

Grrrr. I hate when this happens! The difference of a DIYer and a mechanic with many hours under the belt! LOL. Good of you to pop in TRAV and set things straight. I lucked out when I did my daughter's car...green seal out, green seal in.

Page 3 of this link has the two Ford part numbers: http://www.shinseiauto.com/japanese/transtar/usfordax4n04.pdf

86010E Orange/ 86010H Green

Last edited by doitmyself; 05/25/16 07:10 PM.
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: 69GTX] #4106578 05/25/16 07:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,182
S
simple_gifts Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,182
Check your PM.


2004 Prius; 118K; ALM
2007 Yaris 89K ATM
2006 B2300;135K;ALM


Was driving an ox cart; Now on the USS Enterprise
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: 69GTX] #4106583 05/25/16 07:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,211
T
Trav Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,211
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: Trav
The .490" green seal does not replace the orange seal, it wont fit.
Some seals are .420" it sounds like yours uses the smaller diameter. Take a trip to the parts store, don't try and force it in.


I lifted the front of the car off that green seal with my jack. That was plenty of force....lol. So that might be it. So the green one might be for different AX4N's? What came out my car was orange. If I didn't know better I'd have swore it was just orange putty.


There are a few different ones, They make a .490" green and orange but one in thicker than the other, there are also the .420" ones.
Orange out orange in, green out green, in don't mix them. the correct seal will fit snug but go right in with a little pressure.
AFAIK there is none that uses a metal lip seal that gets installed in the case first in that unit.

Last edited by Trav; 05/25/16 07:14 PM.

ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: simple_gifts] #4106585 05/25/16 07:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
69GTX Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,241
The dimensions on the green seal are approx 1-1/8" OD. The thickness is nearly 1/8th inch. Under a magnifying glass I see the alternating metal strips in there. It's possible I removed every bid of old orange plastic and left just the shiny metal part. The bore is pretty straight the way it is now. If something else still needs to come out, that would leave another lip or flange in that bore. I pried some more in there with the metal pick and there's nothing to grab on to. It feels like a smooth metal bore. With all the poking I did in there today I probably damaged some of the seating surfaces as it is.

I'll call West Springfield Auto Parts in the morning and have them check their inventory and this issue of green vs. orange.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 50K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Help - transmission filter does not fit the slot! [Re: 69GTX] #4106601 05/25/16 07:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,983
D
doitmyself Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,983
The O'Reilly page shows your originally purchased WIX 58822 as an orange seal, as does the WIX site. So, maybe you got the wrong filter in the right box? If that's the case, they should supply a new one for free.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search...8&make=Ford

Check your box before leaving the store. Good luck!!!! Relax tonight and chock it up to "the way it happens sometimes". I'll have a shot of scotch tonight on your behalf.

Last edited by doitmyself; 05/25/16 07:38 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™