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Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. #4101662 05/20/16 08:13 AM
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Shannow Offline OP
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Been a topic that's been up and down for decades on BITOG (early days before the myth was real, my 3VZE DID sound like a tin bucket of bearings after M1 0W40 was installed, and I posted it).

Anyway, noise differences and oils have been described as the placebo effect...to make it appear derived by the poster's imaginations.

Placebo effect, unfortunately isn't an imaginary cure, or a person imagining that they are healed...they actually are (*)

You can google "acoustic emissions engine oil viscosity" and find heaps of stuff...here's a table pulled from a paper. Remember that 3dB is a doubling of the sound pressure, so 6 is pretty decent.



(*) As to the actual placebo effect, Gary Allan use to say that the art of medicine is keeping people entertained until nature takes it's course...I lump placebo effect in there...sometimes people heal themselves.

Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Shannow] #4101665 05/20/16 08:19 AM
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goodtimes Offline
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Right after an oil change, I think the engine runs quieter and smoother. Every time, all kinds of cars. Not imagination.
The human brain and hearing system is far more sophisticated than a decibel meter.

Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Shannow] #4101669 05/20/16 08:23 AM
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ecotourist Offline
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What surprises me is the further reduction in sound pressure level occurring over the first week.


2000 BMW 528i 5MT M Sport
2007 Honda Accord EX-L 4Door V6 6MT
Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Shannow] #4101676 05/20/16 08:33 AM
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wemay Offline
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I will never say there isn't a difference, i just can't hear it.


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
M1HM 10W30, ULTRA XG9688
Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Shannow] #4101677 05/20/16 08:33 AM
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camrydriver111 Offline
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As the table shows it depends on the car.

Maybe how long you run the oil.

If some people don't experience it they could say yours is due to placebo.


BITOG or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Extended OCI
Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Shannow] #4101680 05/20/16 08:34 AM
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Garak Offline
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Most times, if I can tell the difference, the problem was big in the first place. wink


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: camrydriver111] #4101683 05/20/16 08:38 AM
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Shannow Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
If some people don't experience it they could say yours is due to placebo.


Need to come up with a better term then...placebo is a real, measured effect due to no apparent cause.

Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Shannow] #4101688 05/20/16 08:44 AM
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ARCOgraphite Offline
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IN my Nissan rogue
Cheap fake grpiii syn = LOUD and wearing, Magnetec SS = pretty darn quiet. On many high detergent LL oils IME the motor doesn't quiet and settle until about 2oookm down the road. The Moth long add pack "changeover" moving from surface competition embattled mode to "can we all get along now mate!" mode.


Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 05/20/16 08:48 AM.

2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#1 5885mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#7 52665mi-Castrol GTX Magnatec 5W20 + SOA Filter
Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: ARCOgraphite] #4101690 05/20/16 08:45 AM
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wemay Offline
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
IN my Nissan rogue
Cheap fake grpiii syn = LOUD and wearing, Magnetec SS = pretty darn quiet.



Does 'loud' necessarily mean more wear?


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
M1HM 10W30, ULTRA XG9688
Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Shannow] #4101702 05/20/16 09:00 AM
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ARCOgraphite Offline
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Depends on what's making the noise. Its hard to make a noise without contact at least approaching monolayer wetting of contact area.
Reacll "Try to clap hands under water make no sound or slap" or "drop plywood on floor viscous protection." If engine is clattering one might think your EP package is going into overdrive.

What scares me is the wear allowance on API certified oil allow a nitride layer on a cam to be worn off and PASS.

Anyone have a robust paper and study , "Noise doesn't = wear, Dummy!" ? I haven't read it. Goes against any stellar engine mechanics with a stellar rep and tuner intuition for the last 150 years. Harmonic motion should make harmonic noise. You hear non harmonic dissonance = failure in progress.


2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#1 5885mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#7 52665mi-Castrol GTX Magnatec 5W20 + SOA Filter
Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Shannow] #4101728 05/20/16 09:24 AM
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wemay Offline
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Interesting. The logical answer is as you state - more noise or noisier than before = wear. I just haven't seen any definitive studies either.


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
M1HM 10W30, ULTRA XG9688
Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Shannow] #4101762 05/20/16 09:53 AM
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AirgunSavant Offline
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Agreed
Also if you do a fresh oil change before a trip and you use the same exact products you get worse mileage until it gets churned up a bit..........
On a new Ford V8 I went from 5w20 Castrol Mag to the 5W30 Blend.
Of course its fresh oil but I noticed less noise but it now takes the truck far longer to settle into the 500 RPM idle.

Also I hear other noises because the engine is quieter.
That said- after I burn this oil out I will go back to the 5w20 as it gets very cold here lately and I want the truck to get down to idle quicker.

Plus I honestly feel some drag with the 5w30 but it may go away as I only have 500 miles on the new brew.

Also lets be honest- most middle aged men can't hear worth a hoot and some are so rough they cant decipher much of anything. ask their wives smile

Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Shannow] #4101775 05/20/16 10:05 AM
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Kuato Offline
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Sounds like we need a couple of UOAs from an engine, one with a "loud" oil and one with a "quiet" oil.


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: Kuato] #4101780 05/20/16 10:09 AM
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Good idea!!!!!!!

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Sounds like we need a couple of UOAs from an engine, one with a "loud" oil and one with a "quiet" oil.

Re: Quiet engine and the Placebo Effect. [Re: ARCOgraphite] #4101785 05/20/16 10:13 AM
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Is T6 a "cheap fake 'grpiii'" ?

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