So how bad is it?

[Kuato]

OK so this is the 2.4L I-4 in the Wrangler in signature. Did a short interval (yes, it's a waste of Amsoil SS but wanted apples to apples from the last UOA) to check on the trend.

A little history: Had to run this Jeep on 3 cylinders once for around 200 miles when the electronic distributor failed on #4; at the same time had the head gasket failing and both were replaced around 168k. Prior to that as you can see the wear metals were very low, but they've jumped up since. I'm thinking that #4 is suffering a bit.

It still runs fine but is noisy at startup (was not noisy prior to 190k or so) for about a minute until it warms up.

Opinions?

edit: Forgot to mention that the only difference between the pre- and post- head gasket is that it was SS 5w30 prior and is now 0w30. Current fill is 5w30 and will sample again this fall.

I know what my opinion is - but would like to hear from those who know more than I.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Something is going on,but I cant tell what. Could indicate rebuild but im a probee and dont know full extent. Hope it levels out though.

 

[CT8]

I wouldn't spend the money on the Amsoil or the uoas.

 

[MuzzleFlash40]

I'm going to say there was some damage caused during your break down. The combo of unburned fuel washing down #4 and coolant leaking from the head gasket. IMHO there is going to be a rebuild/replacement in it's near future.

If you're going to run it until it breaks, I would just use whatever 5w30 is the cheapest such as supertech.

 

[Colt45ws]

When you ran it with a dead cylinder, did you unplug the injector to prevent fuel wash down? If you had coolant in the oil, then that was probably the majority of the problem.
Agree that it is probably bearing wear since lack of chromium makes me think the pistons are fine.
This just reinforces my opinion that unless the headgasket leak was caught really early via UOA, say under a couple % coolant concentration, then replacing headgaskets just buys time. The bearings get hurt very very quickly. The money would better be put into a full rebuild or another engine.

Or a new vehicle.


I would throw in some 15W40 and run it until starts knocking.

 

[Donald]

Normally bearing wear is indicated by copper and/or lead. Neither is high enough to indicate that. Aluminum would be from the pistons and iron from the cylinder.

I am not sure there is much you can do for this engine expect to run it until is no longer runs well. Depending upon the age and condition of the vehicle a remanufactured engine may be a good idea.

 

[A_Harman]

Stop wasting your money on AMSoil for this engine. Run Valvoline MaxLife from the red jug and wait for the end to come. It may surprise us all how long it will go, though.

Maybe do a compression test in cylinder 4 to see if it is low.

 

[vintageant]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws



I would throw in some 15W40 and run it until starts knocking.


Agree 100% Been using HDEO 15W40 in my old engines for many years.

 

[Canadastang]

I'd just keep on with a cheap conventional 5W30 and run it till it blows.

Honestly, it's not that bad. It could be way worse.

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: CT8
I wouldn't spend the money on the Amsoil or the uoas.


Ditto.

If you have access to Walmart M1 ($10.88/jug after $12 rebate) run the 0w-40 which is fairly close to the Amsoil SS VOA though somewhat less in Phos/Zinc. The PP/PU equivalent of that would run you about $12.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: CT8
I wouldn't spend the money on the Amsoil or the uoas.


I think he should continue to do UOA's to monitor wear metals. 6000 mile intervals, though.

 

[KCJeep]

The only thing that concerns me is the aluminum. I'd run a thick 10w30 in it if it were mine, something like Rotella or PHM.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: CT8
I wouldn't spend the money on the Amsoil or the uoas.


I think he should continue to do UOA's to monitor wear metals. 6000 mile intervals, though.
The engine is getting to the end of its life.

 

[440Magnum]

When you say "2.4L" I assume you mean "2.5L" The Chrysler 2.4 was a DOHC engine used in front-drives like the PT Cruiser, Cirrus/Stratus and so on. The 2.5L is a pushrod 4-cylinder derived from the 4.0L I6 and used in Jeeps (and the Dakota pickup after the older Chrysler SOHC 2.5 was dropped in the late 90s).

It got hurt by a blown head gasket. But that engine has a TON of hurt to give, just keep driving it with a good 5w30 or HDEO and I believe you'll never actually notice any problem. I'm more and more convinced that UOAs are like full-body MRI scans. They make people worry over things that will ultimately have NO impact on lifespan whatsoever.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

2004 Wrangler is going to have the 2.4L DOHC engine. They stopped the good AMC 2.5 in 2001. 2002+ are the 2.4.

The "Neon" family of engines are pretty good at blowing head gaskets.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
2004 Wrangler is going to have the 2.4L DOHC engine. They stopped the good AMC 2.5 in 2001. 2002+ are the 2.4.

The "Neon" family of engines are pretty good at blowing head gaskets.


Did not know that... and you're right, the DOHC EDZ isn't as physically tough as the old pushrod 2.5 even though its got a lot more power, which explains why it had a blown gasket in the first place. That said, its not exactly 'delicate' in later years with the MLS head gasket. I stand by the "it got hurt, but it'll live a long, long time" hypothesis.

 

[dave1251]

IMO UOA's are closer to blood work. Trying to hit a moving target such as engine wear UOA's are not the tool. So fretting about a couple dozen parts per million of metals is rather silly again in my opinion. I would just use a HDEO and monitor for wear. If the OP is dead set on using Amsoil there are HDEO's available that could be used for this application.

 

[Colt45ws]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Normally bearing wear is indicated by copper and/or lead. Neither is high enough to indicate that. Aluminum would be from the pistons and iron from the cylinder.


Bearings have moved away from lead and copper to aluminium. If it was piston wear, you'd see chromium from the rings too.

 

[Kuato]

Thanks all--

Yes this is the 2.4liter, same as used in the Cloud Cars and also the Liberty / Wrangler for a couple years. Here's the page on the Liberty: http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html Funny that Allpar doesn't show it used in the Wrangler.

Agree that Amsoil SS isn't in this engine's future; it will be a less expensive oil for sure. What bothers me most is that the wear seems to be accelerating. From the UOA at 188k it was 22 Al and 29 Fe....on the most recent, to extrapolate, almost 30 and 36 respectively.

Plan is to keep running it, this is 99% an in-town vehicle, and town is only 1 mile across. At some point though there will have to be a replacement (perhaps the entire vehicle) or rebuild. Maybe when it gets to 100+ ppm it will be time.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
What bothers me most is that the wear seems to be accelerating. From the UOA at 188k it was 22 Al and 29 Fe....on the most recent, to extrapolate, almost 30 and 36 respectively.


Pour in a dual rated HDEO 15W40 (or 20W50 if ambients permit) at current OCI's, and ensure no mess from coolant system, this motor could be good for several more years of normal usage.