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Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 #4094325 05/11/16 08:19 PM
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JXW Offline OP
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Drove about 300 miles today, 2010 bmw 328i, 6M. Anywhere from 70mph to 100mph. Milage was above 30 per gallon. Who says thick us bad for mpg???


2007 Tundra SR5, 4x4, 5.7l PP 5w20
2006 HD FLTRI, 20w-50 Redline, 95ci,
2015 Kubota BX2670
2010 BMW 328i x drive, 6M, Redline 5w-30
2010 Honda Fit Sport
Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: JXW] #4094330 05/11/16 08:23 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted By: JXW
Drove about 300 miles today, 2010 bmw 328i, 6M. Anywhere from 70mph to 100mph. Milage was above 30 per gallon. Who says thick us bad for mpg???

What was MPG before? 2010 328i 6M should easily go above 30mpg in that speed range.
By the way, why not running 5W30? It has HTHS of 3.7cp.
Also, how engine behaves? Sound? You have Carly for BMW to track other parameters of engine?

Last edited by edyvw; 05/11/16 08:25 PM.

15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: JXW] #4094334 05/11/16 08:28 PM
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HTSS_TR Offline
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Originally Posted By: JXW
Drove about 300 miles today, 2010 bmw 328i, 6M. Anywhere from 70mph to 100mph. Milage was above 30 per gallon. Who says thick us bad for mpg???

Do this comparison: set cruise control at any speed for 100 miles with these two oils: current Redline 5w40 and next oil change of any synthetic 0W20.

You will see no less 2-3% MPG improvement with 0W20.


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Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: JXW] #4094346 05/11/16 08:40 PM
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Skid Offline
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Thick/thin oil makes its impact on mpg mostly on short trips (when the oil is cold). You won't see much of a difference on long highway drives.

However, fuel economy does vary a lot based on speed.

Here's a link to an online calculator.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/tool-aero-rolling-resistance.php

Here's a link to some sample data.
http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List

I put in some back of the envelope data... guessed 3500 pounds of weight (with you and luggage...), 0.26 Cd (drag coeff), 23 square feet frontal area. The rest, I left the default values in.

60 mph = 42 mpg
70 mph = 34 mpg
80 mph = 28 mpg
90 mph = 23 mpg
100 mph = 19.5 mpg

30 mpg is doable, but depends on how much time you spent at 70 vs. 100, and in-between, of course.

Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: JXW] #4094411 05/11/16 09:54 PM
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Garak Offline
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You'll never be able to measure the difference in daily usage between oil viscosities, no matter how carefully you measure, particularly when those viscosities are within the norms for an engine. Even the claimed mileage gains touted by EPA, the oil companies, and so forth, are well below the error bars that you and I would encounter in measuring the fuel economy.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: Garak] #4094622 05/12/16 06:46 AM
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JXW Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Garak
You'll never be able to measure the difference in daily usage between oil viscosities, no matter how carefully you measure, particularly when those viscosities are within the norms for an engine. Even the claimed mileage gains touted by EPA, the oil companies, and so forth, are well below the error bars that you and I would encounter in measuring the fuel economy.


Why so much emphasis on the oil and mpg by thE OEMs? I agree with you, 100%.


2007 Tundra SR5, 4x4, 5.7l PP 5w20
2006 HD FLTRI, 20w-50 Redline, 95ci,
2015 Kubota BX2670
2010 BMW 328i x drive, 6M, Redline 5w-30
2010 Honda Fit Sport
Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: Garak] #4094703 05/12/16 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: Garak
You'll never be able to measure the difference in daily usage between oil viscosities, no matter how carefully you measure, particularly when those viscosities are within the norms for an engine. Even the claimed mileage gains touted by EPA, the oil companies, and so forth, are well below the error bars that you and I would encounter in measuring the fuel economy.


I agree.

Although in most oil-related literature cited on BITOG they don't even have error bars for anything.

Maybe that's how they can claim there is a difference?


BITOG or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Extended OCI
Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: JXW] #4095163 05/12/16 07:27 PM
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Garak Offline
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Originally Posted By: JXW
Why so much emphasis on the oil and mpg by thE OEMs? I agree with you, 100%.

They can claim credits, and they have the facilities to actually measure the difference. It does save us money, just not a giant pile or anything. Heck, think of it this way. Even if you used Red Line at regular price for one year for your oil changes, and the next year switched to the cheapest approved lube you could find. Would your total money spent on the vehicle, including oil, gas, repairs, insurance, washes, and so forth really change much? It could wind up being almost unnoticeable in the final total.

camrydriver111: I'm sure they use error bars in their testing. But, when they have multi-million dollar labs to test these things, they can obtain results we can't replicate in the real world.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: JXW] #4095193 05/12/16 07:57 PM
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Unless it's old stock of RL 5w40, the HTHS is 4.3 or 4.4 cP (both of the Euro oils). The now-old CJ-4 5w40 was 4.6 cP.


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: JXW] #4095291 05/12/16 09:37 PM
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BerndV Offline
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Originally Posted By: JXW
Why so much emphasis on the oil and mpg by thE OEMs?


One acronym: EPA


2016 Mercedes E63 S AMG
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Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: Garak] #4095400 05/13/16 04:15 AM
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Shannow Offline
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Originally Posted By: Garak
camrydriver111: I'm sure they use error bars in their testing. But, when they have multi-million dollar labs to test these things, they can obtain results we can't replicate in the real world.


For the purposes of things (like CAFE), the error analysis is done in the development of the tests, then the standardised test, test rig, and regime becomes an "absolute" for comparison purposes.

Then manufacturers find the weak points, and play to them to get incremental improvements in those tests.

I've spent $Ms on mechanical turbine upgrades with the total improvement less than the error bars on a single heat rate test...doing one before and after an upgrade shutdown where other work takes place messes the whole show up even more.

As an aside, Valve Wide Open tests for power output takes away a myriad of variables and can give me confidence in the upgrade...then monitoring fuel consumption over 4,000 operating hours, over Greenhouse certified weighers, with fuel composition/CV tested daily and measured to 4 significant figures, we can then find that today was better/worse than 6 months ago.

VW reckon that up to 10% can be won or lost depending on ambient.

Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: Shannow] #4095416 05/13/16 05:42 AM
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Garak Offline
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Yes, the error bars should be standardized by the testing methods. I assume that's common in those ASTM tests and the like. It's also noteworthy that the oil companies do hint at the error bars when they talk about wear protection, as in the claim that "no one" protects better, rather than stating that "we protect better" than anyone else.

It's always hard to back up fuel economy claims outside of a lab when the legislated error bar on a gasoline pump is higher than the claimed benefit, not to mention the many other variables that hit when trying to calculate fuel economy.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: BobFout] #4095709 05/13/16 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: BobFout
Unless it's old stock of RL 5w40, the HTHS is 4.3 or 4.4 cP (both of the Euro oils). The now-old CJ-4 5w40 was 4.6 cP


RL 5w40 non euro, the RL site lists as 4.6 hths.


2007 Tundra SR5, 4x4, 5.7l PP 5w20
2006 HD FLTRI, 20w-50 Redline, 95ci,
2015 Kubota BX2670
2010 BMW 328i x drive, 6M, Redline 5w-30
2010 Honda Fit Sport
Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: JXW] #4095925 05/13/16 03:09 PM
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BobFout Offline
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Originally Posted By: JXW
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Unless it's old stock of RL 5w40, the HTHS is 4.3 or 4.4 cP (both of the Euro oils). The now-old CJ-4 5w40 was 4.6 cP


RL 5w40 non euro, the RL site lists as 4.6 hths.


There is no non-Euro 5w40 anymore. The CJ-4 product is gone. Chances are you're looking at an old data sheet or data on the previous CJ-4 5w40 oil.

The latest data sheet:

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/Motor%20Oil%20PDS%205-13.pdf

Here are the two 5w40s now:

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=3&pcid=21

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=144&pcid=21


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Redline 5w40, hths 4.6 [Re: BobFout] #4100502 05/18/16 09:34 PM
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JXW Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: JXW
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Unless it's old stock of RL 5w40, the HTHS is 4.3 or 4.4 cP (both of the Euro oils). The now-old CJ-4 5w40 was 4.6 cP


RL 5w40 non euro, the RL site lists as 4.6 hths.


There is no non-Euro 5w40 anymore. The CJ-4 product is gone. Chances are you're looking at an old data sheet or data on the previous CJ-4 5w40 oil.

The latest data sheet:

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/Motor%20Oil%20PDS%205-13.pdf

Here are the two 5w40s now:

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=3&pcid=21

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=144&pcid=21


I have the non Euro 5w40 now. Temps are warming this month, I like it. Winter will run 5w30 RL.


2007 Tundra SR5, 4x4, 5.7l PP 5w20
2006 HD FLTRI, 20w-50 Redline, 95ci,
2015 Kubota BX2670
2010 BMW 328i x drive, 6M, Redline 5w-30
2010 Honda Fit Sport
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