Recent Topics
modem in 1 room want phone in another room
by raaizin - 08/21/19 02:17 PM
AC Belt Question
by BISCUT - 08/21/19 02:10 PM
Pros and cons of Electronic Parking Brakes?
by KGMtech - 08/21/19 01:50 PM
Got my first BS sample kit - now what?
by ARCOgraphite - 08/21/19 01:00 PM
2016 Mazda6: no belt replacement interval
by Elkins45 - 08/21/19 01:00 PM
Replaced alternator but kept belt
by Deontologist - 08/21/19 12:51 PM
NapaGold 1348 c&p, 7+yr.OPE fci.
by Sayjac - 08/21/19 12:38 PM
Toyo Proxes ST3
by Redright9 - 08/21/19 12:20 PM
Do you trust air filling stations?
by walterjay - 08/21/19 12:10 PM
Someone explain this part of youtube.
by atikovi - 08/21/19 10:48 AM
Help choosing suspension/steering parts '04 Ranger
by Patrologia - 08/21/19 10:43 AM
2006 V8 Sequoia 264K M1 5w30; 7700 miles on oil
by claluja - 08/21/19 09:48 AM
Meguiars Hyper Dressing
by buster - 08/21/19 09:46 AM
Is it really M1 ESP X1 0W30?
by 21Rouge - 08/21/19 09:33 AM
WWYD? Battery Choice - 2015 Canyon
by WylieCoyote - 08/21/19 09:27 AM
Bypass Orifice
by Bailes1992 - 08/21/19 09:23 AM
VW Plastic Oil Drain Plugs
by dishdude - 08/21/19 09:22 AM
Newest Members
Sissen, Luke352, drh214, Levinz11, tequilla50
69019 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
119 registered members (2015_PSD, 1978elcamino, 53' Stude, Alfred_B, 10 invisible), 2,341 guests, and 24 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics293,610
Posts5,043,372
Members69,019
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota #4092994 05/10/16 09:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 11,068
W
wemay Offline OP
OP Offline
W
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 11,068
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/05/10/minnesota-ev-pollute-less-than-gas/



Quote (small excerpt)
"...The 61-percent figure is reached under the worst of conditions, given the "higher carbon intensity" of gas refined in Minnesota compared to the rest of the US. Factor in the growing offerings of power from renewable resources such as water and wind, and that greenhouse-gas reduction climbs to as much as 95 percent. Within an average car's lifetime mileage of about 160,000 miles, an EV emits at least 46 fewer tons of greenhouse gases than conventional vehicles. To quote Deep Purple, that's a lot of Smoke on the Water in the Land of 10,000 Lakes..."


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
M1HM 10W30, ULTRA XG9688
Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: wemay] #4092996 05/10/16 09:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,887
D
Danh Online Content
Online Content
D
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,887
No argument with the notion EVs are cleaner than traditional autos. But note the "75% oil sands" reference, effectively comparing EVs in this analysis to the dirtiest possible way to extract crude oil.

Last edited by Danh; 05/10/16 09:39 AM.
Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: wemay] #4093051 05/10/16 10:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 404
K
kam327 Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 404
Another study that came out recently said that TOTAL emissions from electrics / hybrids are generally no less than their gasoline counterparts. Since they're on average heavier than their gas counterparts, they put out as much additional brake dust and tire particles as the reduction in exhaust emissions.


2017 Mazda6 Touring 2.5L
2017 Ford Explorer Limited 3.5L
Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: kam327] #4093083 05/10/16 11:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,323
I
IndyIan Offline
Offline
I
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,323
Originally Posted By: kam327
Another study that came out recently said that TOTAL emissions from electrics / hybrids are generally no less than their gasoline counterparts. Since they're on average heavier than their gas counterparts, they put out as much additional brake dust and tire particles as the reduction in exhaust emissions.

Doesn't sound too probable given all hybrids and electrics use regenerative braking... Also the electric/hybrid cars seem to be about the same weight as the gas competition. The Tesla S is 4400-4600lbs just like every other luxo-barge.
I think the future will be home solar generation and storage for electric cars anyways. Giant grids and power stations seem expensive as small scale generation gets cheaper.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 245km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 35km 0W20
Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: kam327] #4093094 05/10/16 11:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
H
HTSS_TR Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
Duplicate post

Last edited by HTSS_TR; 05/10/16 11:38 AM.

'00 MB E430
'04 Honda S2000
'06 Volvo V70
'14 Honda Accord LX
"Throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pope Francis
Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: HTSS_TR] #4093096 05/10/16 11:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
H
HTSS_TR Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
Originally Posted By: kam327
Another study that came out recently said that TOTAL emissions from electrics / hybrids are generally no less than their gasoline counterparts. Since they're on average heavier than their gas counterparts, they put out as much additional brake dust and tire particles as the reduction in exhaust emissions.

This study is probably sponsored by oil industry to discredit zero emission vehicles.

Brake dust and tire particles of any vehicle type (ZEV(Zero Emission Vehicle) or PIH(Plug In Hybrid) or ICE) are very little compares with pollution from exhaust of ICE.

I never saw any emission study mentions Brake dust and tire particles.

This study didn't include the electric generated by coal and oil and natural gas.


'00 MB E430
'04 Honda S2000
'06 Volvo V70
'14 Honda Accord LX
"Throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pope Francis
Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: IndyIan] #4093116 05/10/16 11:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
H
HerrStig Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: kam327
Another study that came out recently said that TOTAL emissions from electrics / hybrids are generally no less than their gasoline counterparts. Since they're on average heavier than their gas counterparts, they put out as much additional brake dust and tire particles as the reduction in exhaust emissions.

Doesn't sound too probable given all hybrids and electrics use regenerative braking... Also the electric/hybrid cars seem to be about the same weight as the gas competition. The Tesla S is 4400-4600lbs just like every other luxo-barge.
I think the future will be home solar generation and storage for electric cars anyways. Giant grids and power stations seem expensive as small scale generation gets cheaper.
Regenerative braking doesn't work worth a bleep in stop and go traffic. Works good on a mile long freight train, though.

Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: wemay] #4093140 05/10/16 12:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,503
M
MNgopher Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,503
One should note for the purposes of this analysis, it is assumed that the bulk of the crude oil used is tar sands oil - the refineries in the Twin Cities are long time refiners of Heavy Sour Crude from Canada.

Historically, the majority of US refiners were not equipped to refine this product, and thus our refiners enjoyed lower cost supplies. As oil prices skyrocketed, many more refiners upgraded their capabilities to handle this product.

Nationally, these statistics would look different as the US refining mix is much different than the local refining picture.

Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: kam327] #4093154 05/10/16 12:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,408
R
raytseng Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,408
Originally Posted By: kam327
Another study that came out recently said that TOTAL emissions from electrics / hybrids are generally no less than their gasoline counterparts. Since they're on average heavier than their gas counterparts, they put out as much additional brake dust and tire particles as the reduction in exhaust emissions.


Well such is the result of open publishing. And the topic of are EVs just as dirty as gasoline cars is the topic with a thousand studies, so you can find a lot of ones with results to match your preconceived notions, or to be interesting tidbits to maek you feel smarter.

Last week tonight just covered this exact topic of Science Studies last Sunday. Science is not 100% one way and 0% the other way and it gets messy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rnq1NpHdmw

The result is there will always be Studies, and then a result will be people who say but what about study X which finds the opposite you're just picking and choosing.

Eventually science will come closer to Truth, but it may clouded, and spun by special interests; PR and the rest of it. Just be aware that this happens

Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: wemay] #4093385 05/10/16 06:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
Do they include the mining and manufacture of the battery banks in this or just the vehicle itself? I don't see it mentioned in the article shrug So my guess is no.... Nor do they factor in the periodic replacement of that battery bank.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: OVERKILL] #4093391 05/10/16 06:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,999
S
surfstar Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,999
What about engine oil? Gearbox/transmission oil? Coolant? Production, refining, transportation of all of those? Is that accounted for on the gasser side? How about oil leaks from engines? I thought there was a stat that more oil leaks out annually from passenger vehicles than the Exxon Valdez?


Last edited by surfstar; 05/10/16 06:25 PM.

2016 Golf Sportwagen 5MT M1 0w40 LC20 RLI BioPlus
my other vehicle is a Roth IRA
Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: wemay] #4093399 05/10/16 06:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 11,068
W
wemay Offline OP
OP Offline
W
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 11,068
Time is key here. The fact that EV, now in its mass appeal infancy, can already be compared to the ICE in terms of overall costs, puts a feather in that technologies hat. Time marches on.


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
M1HM 10W30, ULTRA XG9688
Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: surfstar] #4093400 05/10/16 06:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
Originally Posted By: surfstar
What about engine oil? Gearbox/transmission oil? Coolant? Production, refining, transportation of all of those? Is that accounted for on the gasser side? How about oil leaks from engines? I thought there was a stat that more oil leaks out annually from passenger vehicles than the Exxon Valdez?



Gearbox oil likely applies to the EV's as well. But good point about the other leaks. And then we have the bunker fuel burned trucking the batteries or their components over from China. The Maersk consumes, at minimum, 1,660 gal/hour of bunker fuel, which has 2,000 times the sulphur content of automotive fuel. Of course this applies to other things that come from China too.

There is so much pollution.....


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: OVERKILL] #4093781 05/11/16 08:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 687
M
MotoTribologist Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Do they include the mining and manufacture of the battery banks in this or just the vehicle itself? I don't see it mentioned in the article shrug So my guess is no.... Nor do they factor in the periodic replacement of that battery bank.

The chart clearly accounts for vehicle and battery manufacturing.

Hint: it's the blue part. wink

Re: EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota [Re: wemay] #4093864 05/11/16 09:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,302
MolaKule Offline
Global Moderator
Offline
Global Moderator
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,302
Richard Feynman once said,
Quote:
Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.


As is usual in politicized science, journalists use slanted stats to advance their agendas.

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/11/16 09:57 AM.

The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™