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Molybdenum, is there a downside? #4084141 05/01/16 07:52 AM
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5170 Offline OP
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I constantly read how this additive is the favorite of many bitog members. Is there any downside to this ingredient? Why don't all mfc use it?


'14 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L - 5W-20 Havoline DS, TG9688
Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: 5170] #4084147 05/01/16 07:59 AM
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Jetronic Offline
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Deposits form during the Thermo-oxidation Engine Oil Simulation Test, so you're not guaranteed to pass if you have a lot of moly.


AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
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Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: 5170] #4085032 05/02/16 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: 5170
I constantly read how this additive is the favorite of many bitog members. Is there any downside to this ingredient? Why don't all mfc use it?


YES!

1/ Good quality (Tri-nuke etc) Moly is expensive, so most oils in use in the USA do not contain any Moly(Mo), OR have so little that it has no real effect.

2/ Cheap forms (Not made and fully certified by a German chemical company) drop out of solution or suspension after a few years (Then it sure does not work unless stirred up).

3/ CORROSION, too much Moly can increase corrosion rates (Big issue with older diesels), hence some engines must not use an engine oil with Mo in it. Castrol GTX is a good one for such engines.

4/ A lot of engine oil mixers do NOT CHECK FOR CHEMICAL INTERFERENCE WITH OTHER ADDITIVES, or even new high tech base stocks. The big players like Mobil, Castrol, SHELL and Liqui Moly sure do.

CONCLUSION: Use a major brand full synthetic and stay away from the use of non TUV Sud (German certs) oil additives not sold by Liqui Moly (Owned by Fuchs a big refiner) or Castrol (Their classic car division do sell a few, but only in bulk).

PS: If you have bought a non TUV or API certified oil additive, READ THE PRODUCT DATA SHEET (Contents and instructions), then throw it in the correct rubbish bin, before rather than after use (Gingerbeer joke)!

Last edited by UltrafanUK; 05/02/16 12:52 AM.
Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: 5170] #4085170 05/02/16 08:00 AM
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5170 Offline OP
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Thank you UltrafanUK


'14 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L - 5W-20 Havoline DS, TG9688
Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: 5170] #4085176 05/02/16 08:05 AM
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An additive with very small MoS2 particles in suspension (like Liqui Moly) will make your oil look darker, even when it is fresh. Some people don't like this effect...


2014 Forester XT, 105000 miles
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Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: 5170] #4085277 05/02/16 10:07 AM
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The primary use for molybdenum compounds is for fuel economy benefits. This benefit works best when combined with ZDDP and adding more Molybdenum compounds doesn't necessarily increase the benefit or extend the benefit through longer oil changes.

Most formulators have chosen to balance zdp and molybdenum compounds to give you the performance required by the specifications list in the owners manual.

Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: Solarent] #4086343 05/03/16 12:51 PM
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MolaKule Offline
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Originally Posted By: Solarent
The primary use for molybdenum compounds is for fuel economy benefits. This benefit works best when combined with ZDDP and adding more Molybdenum compounds doesn't necessarily increase the benefit or extend the benefit through longer oil changes.

Most formulators have chosen to balance zdp and molybdenum compounds to give you the performance required by the specifications list in the owners manual.


thumbsup


The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: UltrafanUK] #4086796 05/03/16 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
A lot of engine oil mixers do NOT CHECK FOR CHEMICAL INTERFERENCE WITH OTHER ADDITIVES, or even new high tech base stocks. The big players like Mobil, Castrol, SHELL and Liqui Moly sure do.


Are you claiming that 'small player'/boutique blenders (like Red Line) which have high 'dimer'/di-nuke type moly levels are also guilty of the above omission/oversight?? shrug

Or was this ONLY directed at car owners dumping untold amounts of (non-LM) moly additives into their sumps?


2016 Ford Fiesta ST 17K miles
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Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: 5170] #4088941 05/05/16 08:09 PM
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steve20 Offline
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I love the part throttle increased responsiveness effect of LM MSO2 in older engines, say 100K & up--more than the butt-dyno IMO. Newer engines may make a difference, but not felt by the dyno
Steve



Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: dailydriver] #4097632 05/15/16 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
A lot of engine oil mixers do NOT CHECK FOR CHEMICAL INTERFERENCE WITH OTHER ADDITIVES, or even new high tech base stocks. The big players like Mobil, Castrol, SHELL and Liqui Moly sure do.


Are you claiming that 'small player'/boutique blenders (like Red Line) which have high 'dimer'/di-nuke type moly levels are also guilty of the above omission/oversight?? shrug

Or was this ONLY directed at car owners dumping untold amounts of (non-LM) moly additives into their sumps?


No, when the folks here talk about additives, they are talking about ones not included in an engine oil by the oil mixer or oil company. Oil mixers like Redline do test their products to some extent, BUT most of the so called Snake Oil Mixers do not.

I do use Ceratec with Shell Ultra and LM Synthoil High Tech, but I'm sure LM test their additives with common major brand oils.

Most Redline oils seem to be aimed at Race engines or thin oil applications, so they have a lot of Moly and less detergents. So they are not designed for long OCI's.

Last edited by UltrafanUK; 05/15/16 06:53 PM.
Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: 5170] #4099657 05/17/16 11:30 PM
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In my new Honda Civic I use Lubegard Biotech. Arco used LM Mos2 in a quite new Honda and it gave him trouble. Mos2 works well in older cars but newer cars I would use Lubegard Biotech or Redline oil as an additive for a kick in molybdenum.


15' Civic 1.8 i-vtec 262,000 mi Redline 5w20, BP Cvt fluid, Archoil9100
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Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: Marco620] #4099929 05/18/16 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: Marco620
In my new Honda Civic I use Lubegard Biotech. Arco used LM Mos2 in a quite new Honda and it gave him trouble. Mos2 works well in older cars but newer cars I would use Lubegard Biotech or Redline oil as an additive for a kick in molybdenum.


Yeah, considering his track record of ruining nearly every vehicle he touches (or at least claims he did), I wouldn't worry about that.


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
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Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4100461 05/18/16 08:24 PM
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Royal Purple support emailed me back and they don't use it cause it stays in suspension.. Maybe they don't think it is a decent wear anti- additive or causes other issues as you guys have stated?

i didn't ask them details.


2001 Honda civic HX vtecE- 5 spd.
Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: andrewp1998] #4101921 05/20/16 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: andrewp1998
Royal Purple support emailed me back and they don't use it cause it stays in suspension.. Maybe they don't think it is a decent wear anti- additive or causes other issues as you guys have stated?

i didn't ask them details.


What did they say exactly - could you quote their text? Something doesn't add up here.


The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: Molybdenum, is there a downside? [Re: UltrafanUK] #4101925 05/20/16 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK


3/ CORROSION, too much Moly can increase corrosion rates (Big issue with older diesels), hence some engines must not use an engine oil with Mo in it. Castrol GTX is a good one for such engines.


Under what circumstances might this happen? Is the Mo in 4 litres of Redline & 1 can of LM mos2 of sufficient concentration to cause harm?


Cable ties should hold it
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