I think Russia is less of a perceived threat , so flybys are not fired upon. If North Korea pulled those stunts, the outcome might be different.
What did Putin hope to accomplish?
- Thread starter fdcg27
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I don't think that very many of us believe every word Obama utters any more than we did every proclamation of Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Nixon or either Bush.
Most Americans have a healthy skepticism and are capable of critically processing the word from Washington.
Most of us are in no way sheep, contrary to what some conspiracy theorists like to pretend.
We do enjoy freedom of political speech in this country, which is still untrue of many nations.
Most Americans have a healthy skepticism and are capable of critically processing the word from Washington.
Most of us are in no way sheep, contrary to what some conspiracy theorists like to pretend.
We do enjoy freedom of political speech in this country, which is still untrue of many nations.
Maybe off topic at this point, but with 20+ years in the Air Force and 13 on the outside in 2 different companies, it's been my experience that leadership is the military's stock in trade. The mission just won't happen in many cases without strong leadership. OTOH, I came to believe the military is, among other things, a training ground for incompetent managers. The civilian companies I've been in were almost bereft of leadership, but chock full of managers bent on enforcing draconian policies and procedures to the point of sheer stupidity in some cases.
An old saying goes "Managers see things get done right. Leaders see the right things get done." Only the ones who are adept at balancing both in the proper measure rise to the level of military command.
An old saying goes "Managers see things get done right. Leaders see the right things get done." Only the ones who are adept at balancing both in the proper measure rise to the level of military command.
It's something you can't teach, and you know it when you see it. Putin is obviously an excellent leader. Your guy, obviously not.
Originally Posted By: totegoat
A shoot down would have been a problem. A flyby over their airfield would have been tit for tat.
A flyby over a Russian airfield?
I don't think so. We would get intercepted before we even got close and possibly start something serious.
A shoot down would have been a problem. A flyby over their airfield would have been tit for tat.
A flyby over a Russian airfield?
I don't think so. We would get intercepted before we even got close and possibly start something serious.
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: totegoat
A shoot down would have been a problem. A flyby over their airfield would have been tit for tat.
A flyby over a Russian airfield?
I don't think so. We would get intercepted before we even got close and possibly start something serious.
Probably not serious. The Russians only understand strength. Weakness only encourages them, like all bullies.
Originally Posted By: totegoat
A shoot down would have been a problem. A flyby over their airfield would have been tit for tat.
A flyby over a Russian airfield?
I don't think so. We would get intercepted before we even got close and possibly start something serious.
Probably not serious. The Russians only understand strength. Weakness only encourages them, like all bullies.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Navy officers are more concerned about their next promotion.... rather than their fellow sailors and doing the RIGHT thing. Sad but 100% true.
No.
Not 100% true.
Some officers are as you describe. Many are not. Many are simply focused on taking care of their people and accomplishing the mission.
+1. I primarily work with O-5 to O-8 military personnel. The current batch I am working with give their absolute all to get what needs to be done, done. Especially at the O-5 and O-6 level. Once you're a flag, the promotions are still important, but nobody can take that away from you... I doubt anyone would be ashamed that they retired an O-7. And the intelligence that the O-7/O-8s that I work with have is rather striking - these are very bright people, not just promoted because they lined themselves up for it (like you do indeed see in the civilian and private world).
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Navy officers are more concerned about their next promotion.... rather than their fellow sailors and doing the RIGHT thing. Sad but 100% true.
No.
Not 100% true.
Some officers are as you describe. Many are not. Many are simply focused on taking care of their people and accomplishing the mission.
+1. I primarily work with O-5 to O-8 military personnel. The current batch I am working with give their absolute all to get what needs to be done, done. Especially at the O-5 and O-6 level. Once you're a flag, the promotions are still important, but nobody can take that away from you... I doubt anyone would be ashamed that they retired an O-7. And the intelligence that the O-7/O-8s that I work with have is rather striking - these are very bright people, not just promoted because they lined themselves up for it (like you do indeed see in the civilian and private world).
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Re: What did Putin hope to accomplish? ]
Chest-pounding....... which is pretty easy and boastful when going toe-to-toe with the wimpy Barack.
Re: What did Putin hope to accomplish? ]
Chest-pounding....... which is pretty easy and boastful when going toe-to-toe with the wimpy Barack.
Quote:
A Russian fighter jet flew dangerously close to a U.S. RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft on Thursday in the latest military provocation by Moscow over the Baltic Sea, the U.S. European Command said Saturday.
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russian-jet-threatened-u-s-recon-aircraft/
A Russian fighter jet flew dangerously close to a U.S. RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft on Thursday in the latest military provocation by Moscow over the Baltic Sea, the U.S. European Command said Saturday.
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russian-jet-threatened-u-s-recon-aircraft/
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: totegoat
A shoot down would have been a problem. A flyby over their airfield would have been tit for tat.
A flyby over a Russian airfield?
I don't think so. We would get intercepted before we even got close and possibly start something serious.
AFAIK, they used to do (very high altitude) fly-overs with the SR-71 all the time. The Ruskies didn't have anything that could catch one so it didn't matter.
Originally Posted By: totegoat
A shoot down would have been a problem. A flyby over their airfield would have been tit for tat.
A flyby over a Russian airfield?
I don't think so. We would get intercepted before we even got close and possibly start something serious.
AFAIK, they used to do (very high altitude) fly-overs with the SR-71 all the time. The Ruskies didn't have anything that could catch one so it didn't matter.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: totegoat
A shoot down would have been a problem. A flyby over their airfield would have been tit for tat.
A flyby over a Russian airfield?
I don't think so. We would get intercepted before we even got close and possibly start something serious.
AFAIK, they used to do (very high altitude) fly-overs with the SR-71 all the time. The Ruskies didn't have anything that could catch one so it didn't matter.
A fly-over at super high altitude isn't the same thing as going into Russian airspace and doing a flyby over an airfield. And this isn't 1967 any more.
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: totegoat
A shoot down would have been a problem. A flyby over their airfield would have been tit for tat.
A flyby over a Russian airfield?
I don't think so. We would get intercepted before we even got close and possibly start something serious.
AFAIK, they used to do (very high altitude) fly-overs with the SR-71 all the time. The Ruskies didn't have anything that could catch one so it didn't matter.
A fly-over at super high altitude isn't the same thing as going into Russian airspace and doing a flyby over an airfield. And this isn't 1967 any more.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: totegoat
A shoot down would have been a problem. A flyby over their airfield would have been tit for tat.
A flyby over a Russian airfield?
I don't think so. We would get intercepted before we even got close and possibly start something serious.
AFAIK, they used to do (very high altitude) fly-overs with the SR-71 all the time. The Ruskies didn't have anything that could catch one so it didn't matter.
A fly-over at super high altitude isn't the same thing as going into Russian airspace and doing a flyby over an airfield. And this isn't 1967 any more.
The SR-71 isn't in service anymore. Other than that, it was the same game, as Shannow points out. They'd purposely do a bait and pull because they could. The Soviets didn't have anything that could catch it and everybody, particularly the sled drivers, knew it.
If anything, it was far MORE dangerous doing that kind of thing during those times versus now.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: totegoat
A shoot down would have been a problem. A flyby over their airfield would have been tit for tat.
A flyby over a Russian airfield?
I don't think so. We would get intercepted before we even got close and possibly start something serious.
AFAIK, they used to do (very high altitude) fly-overs with the SR-71 all the time. The Ruskies didn't have anything that could catch one so it didn't matter.
A fly-over at super high altitude isn't the same thing as going into Russian airspace and doing a flyby over an airfield. And this isn't 1967 any more.
The SR-71 isn't in service anymore. Other than that, it was the same game, as Shannow points out. They'd purposely do a bait and pull because they could. The Soviets didn't have anything that could catch it and everybody, particularly the sled drivers, knew it.
If anything, it was far MORE dangerous doing that kind of thing during those times versus now.
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: Ded Mazai
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Ded Mazai
They don't need facts. It is much easier to live without facts. And the fact is that American controlled Ukraine did not release flight dispatchers talks with the Malaysian airplane. Another fact - look at the flightradar24. How many airplanes fly over Ukraine now? None. All the flights now are over Russia. Why? Explain this yourself.
You're living in a fantasy land with this and your prior posts on this topic.
Keep believing what Putin tells you, Comrade, and you'll be OK.
I am not a comrade to you. I can say exactly the same that you believe in what your government tells you. My question: why is your government hiding any information about the Malaysian flight? It is suspicious when somebody is hiding information and pointing the finger at someone else.
And another question: why are you panicking so much because the military airplane flew close to the ship? If you are powerful and have some modern secret weapons as some alluded to than you have nothing to fear. Don't worry.
All excellent points Ded Mazai. Don't expect any honest discussion with many of these apologists here they will believe ANYTHING
that the US gov't tells them and the controlled mass media that spoon feeds it to them.
However there are many in the USA that understand the "unseen hand" behind the US gov't, global financial interests, and mass media, and how insidious their machinations are. While the current Russian gov't has plenty of short comings they have done some things that have helped to neutralize the cancer that unseen hand has spread.
Are you referring to the City as a "unseen hand" by any chance?
Originally Posted By: Ded Mazai
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Ded Mazai
They don't need facts. It is much easier to live without facts. And the fact is that American controlled Ukraine did not release flight dispatchers talks with the Malaysian airplane. Another fact - look at the flightradar24. How many airplanes fly over Ukraine now? None. All the flights now are over Russia. Why? Explain this yourself.
You're living in a fantasy land with this and your prior posts on this topic.
Keep believing what Putin tells you, Comrade, and you'll be OK.
I am not a comrade to you. I can say exactly the same that you believe in what your government tells you. My question: why is your government hiding any information about the Malaysian flight? It is suspicious when somebody is hiding information and pointing the finger at someone else.
And another question: why are you panicking so much because the military airplane flew close to the ship? If you are powerful and have some modern secret weapons as some alluded to than you have nothing to fear. Don't worry.
All excellent points Ded Mazai. Don't expect any honest discussion with many of these apologists here they will believe ANYTHING
that the US gov't tells them and the controlled mass media that spoon feeds it to them.
However there are many in the USA that understand the "unseen hand" behind the US gov't, global financial interests, and mass media, and how insidious their machinations are. While the current Russian gov't has plenty of short comings they have done some things that have helped to neutralize the cancer that unseen hand has spread.
Are you referring to the City as a "unseen hand" by any chance?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The SR-71 isn't in service anymore. Other than that, it was the same game, as Shannow points out. They'd purposely do a bait and pull because they could. The Soviets didn't have anything that could catch it and everybody, particularly the sled drivers, knew it.
If anything, it was far MORE dangerous doing that kind of thing during those times versus now.
Recently read a book called "Area 51" on the U2 and the A12 Oxcart programme, and the CIA operating them rather than the military.
Here's a document that has some of the stuff in it.
http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/document_conversions/18/1992-04-01.pdf
The SR-71 isn't in service anymore. Other than that, it was the same game, as Shannow points out. They'd purposely do a bait and pull because they could. The Soviets didn't have anything that could catch it and everybody, particularly the sled drivers, knew it.
If anything, it was far MORE dangerous doing that kind of thing during those times versus now.
Recently read a book called "Area 51" on the U2 and the A12 Oxcart programme, and the CIA operating them rather than the military.
Here's a document that has some of the stuff in it.
http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/document_conversions/18/1992-04-01.pdf
Originally Posted By: hatt
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russian-jet-threatened-u-s-recon-aircraft/
A certain president in the 80's would have told Putin that a future incident WILL result in the aircraft being splashed. Probably would have ended it. Putin is now a bully bc bullies pick on the weak (President)
The situation is now more dangerous bc Putin will continue to escalate to the point of a mis-calculation. Coming like a freight train.
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russian-jet-threatened-u-s-recon-aircraft/
A certain president in the 80's would have told Putin that a future incident WILL result in the aircraft being splashed. Probably would have ended it. Putin is now a bully bc bullies pick on the weak (President)
The situation is now more dangerous bc Putin will continue to escalate to the point of a mis-calculation. Coming like a freight train.
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