new bmw 10w60 turbo oil
- Thread starter Rednks1
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I'm sure it's fine, but this oil may be too new to have any reliable usage data on it.
Does your z4m actually require this oil? I know some M-engines are fine to run on any regular LL-01 oil that doesn't have to be 10w-60...
Welcome to BITOG!
Does your z4m actually require this oil? I know some M-engines are fine to run on any regular LL-01 oil that doesn't have to be 10w-60...
Welcome to BITOG!
The Z4M uses the E46 M3's 3.2L I6, so yes, it would be spec'd for 10w60. Only the brand new turbocharged M cars can use LL-01.
The specs of the new Shell oil are basically the same as the Castrol TWS oil. BMW considers them equivalent so I would absolutely use it without hesitation.
The specs of the new Shell oil are basically the same as the Castrol TWS oil. BMW considers them equivalent so I would absolutely use it without hesitation.
His M has the S54, and BMW recommends Castrol TWS 10W-60. It is my belief that the "TWS" part is more important than the "10W-60," as it is known to shear out of grade.
Haven't seen any data on the new oil, but it has to be better than the Liqui Moly junk that so many "enthusiasts" swear by.
I'm wondering why you've asked this question after the oil change, and not before.
Your M should be fine.
Haven't seen any data on the new oil, but it has to be better than the Liqui Moly junk that so many "enthusiasts" swear by.
I'm wondering why you've asked this question after the oil change, and not before.
Your M should be fine.
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I have tried to find comparison data and haven't had much luck.
as a professorial mech I change my oil every 5000 miles. motor looks brand new inside and out at 65000. the new oil is made by Pennzoil I believe but its hard to get the Castrol here now I found out. and am getting ready for a road trip and trusted bmw to not do us wrong. im have never been a Pennzoil fan as I run mobil oil in most every thing I own and maintain.
as a professorial mech I change my oil every 5000 miles. motor looks brand new inside and out at 65000. the new oil is made by Pennzoil I believe but its hard to get the Castrol here now I found out. and am getting ready for a road trip and trusted bmw to not do us wrong. im have never been a Pennzoil fan as I run mobil oil in most every thing I own and maintain.
Originally Posted By: Rednks1
I have tried to find comparison data and haven't had much luck.
as a professorial mech I change my oil every 5000 miles. motor looks brand new inside and out at 65000. the new oil is made by Pennzoil I believe but its hard to get the Castrol here now I found out. and am getting ready for a road trip and trusted bmw to not do us wrong. im have never been a Pennzoil fan as I run mobil oil in most every thing I own and maintain.
Yes, unfortunately the new oil is somewhat of a mystery. Most people think it's Pennzoil Ultra in a different bottle, since that's Pennzoil's "top" oil and it was already being produced in a 10w60.
Fortunately you can still get the Castrol TWS from many sources online if that's the oil you prefer. There are also numerous other 10w60 choices.
I have tried to find comparison data and haven't had much luck.
as a professorial mech I change my oil every 5000 miles. motor looks brand new inside and out at 65000. the new oil is made by Pennzoil I believe but its hard to get the Castrol here now I found out. and am getting ready for a road trip and trusted bmw to not do us wrong. im have never been a Pennzoil fan as I run mobil oil in most every thing I own and maintain.
Yes, unfortunately the new oil is somewhat of a mystery. Most people think it's Pennzoil Ultra in a different bottle, since that's Pennzoil's "top" oil and it was already being produced in a 10w60.
Fortunately you can still get the Castrol TWS from many sources online if that's the oil you prefer. There are also numerous other 10w60 choices.
That oil is probably Shell Helix Ultra Racing that Shell is packing for BMW or some derivative of that oil made for BMW.
That oil is developed primarily for Ferrari and BMW M engines in mind as aftermarket oil for BMW (before Shell became official oil supplier).
I would say equal or probably better then Castrol TWS since all BMW OEM oils went through reformulation.
That oil is developed primarily for Ferrari and BMW M engines in mind as aftermarket oil for BMW (before Shell became official oil supplier).
I would say equal or probably better then Castrol TWS since all BMW OEM oils went through reformulation.
Why will it be better than TWS
Anyway. Quiz time. What does TWS mean ?
Anyway. Quiz time. What does TWS mean ?
Ten W Sixty
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
This Will Shear
This Will Shear
It's as good a name as 'twin turbo'oil for none turbo engines
TWS doesn't shear much. People stick it in engine with a litre of the old oil and a load of fuel dilution then wonder why it's no longer a 60.
The reason it is a 60 is to combat the fuel dilution
TWS is rather unique in its base oil approach
TWS doesn't shear much. People stick it in engine with a litre of the old oil and a load of fuel dilution then wonder why it's no longer a 60.
The reason it is a 60 is to combat the fuel dilution
TWS is rather unique in its base oil approach
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
TWS doesn't shear much.
TWS is rather unique in its base oil approach
I agree it doesn't shear much, or very quickly finds a good stable viscosity that it holds on to.
I ran it in a few wet clutch / shared sump motorcycles that quickly sheared out many other oils and gave me bad gear changes. GTX 20W-50 & Valvoline WB/XLD 20W-50 could not go the distance, but TWS lasted twice the miles with no problems and great gear changes.
Once I found Castrol Edge / Formula R / TWS 10W-60, I ran nothing else for the next 10 years in my motorcycles. It always gave great gear changes, no clutch slip, and stayed clean looking for a whole year. Regular Mineral 20W-50 would not last 6 months, sometimes only 3-4 months. To be honest I liked the 10W-60 better than the Penrite 10-Tenths Racing (100% PAO & Ester) for gear box feel, but the Penrite was fine, shear stable, and went the distance too. Nothing wrong with the Penrite, it's a great oil, I just preferred the gear box feel with the TWS.
I spoke to a Castrol tech over the phone and he told me the 10W-60 was a PAO based oil.
OP, I'm sure the new Pennzoil / Shell Ultra is good stuff too, probably based on their GTL Ferrari 10W-60 Racing oil.
Wow, we are talking all top shelf stuff here, Castrol TWS PAO, Pennzoil / Shell Ultra GTL, Penrite 10-Tenths PAO&Ester.
TWS doesn't shear much.
TWS is rather unique in its base oil approach
I agree it doesn't shear much, or very quickly finds a good stable viscosity that it holds on to.
I ran it in a few wet clutch / shared sump motorcycles that quickly sheared out many other oils and gave me bad gear changes. GTX 20W-50 & Valvoline WB/XLD 20W-50 could not go the distance, but TWS lasted twice the miles with no problems and great gear changes.
Once I found Castrol Edge / Formula R / TWS 10W-60, I ran nothing else for the next 10 years in my motorcycles. It always gave great gear changes, no clutch slip, and stayed clean looking for a whole year. Regular Mineral 20W-50 would not last 6 months, sometimes only 3-4 months. To be honest I liked the 10W-60 better than the Penrite 10-Tenths Racing (100% PAO & Ester) for gear box feel, but the Penrite was fine, shear stable, and went the distance too. Nothing wrong with the Penrite, it's a great oil, I just preferred the gear box feel with the TWS.
I spoke to a Castrol tech over the phone and he told me the 10W-60 was a PAO based oil.
OP, I'm sure the new Pennzoil / Shell Ultra is good stuff too, probably based on their GTL Ferrari 10W-60 Racing oil.
Wow, we are talking all top shelf stuff here, Castrol TWS PAO, Pennzoil / Shell Ultra GTL, Penrite 10-Tenths PAO&Ester.
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Why will it be better than TWS
Anyway. Quiz time. What does TWS mean ?
For BMW? Maybe BMW used experience from TWS and applied with SHell on their 10W60 oil. Not sure why it woud not be better?
Why will it be better than TWS
Anyway. Quiz time. What does TWS mean ?
For BMW? Maybe BMW used experience from TWS and applied with SHell on their 10W60 oil. Not sure why it woud not be better?
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Doug Hillary has made a few posts about Castrol 10W-60, being part of the testing and development team. It has a long history and has many developmental changes along the way.
I don't think it's fair to say BMW learnt something and applied it to the Shell product, sort of implying there was no opportunity to the develop the Castrol product because it was finished and complete. I think there has always been a BMW - Castrol development feedback loop.
I'm thinking more big business deals, rather than chemistry.
I don't think it's fair to say BMW learnt something and applied it to the Shell product, sort of implying there was no opportunity to the develop the Castrol product because it was finished and complete. I think there has always been a BMW - Castrol development feedback loop.
I'm thinking more big business deals, rather than chemistry.
From this thread on the full synthetic Castrol 10W-60
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2988455
A bit of history from Doug Hillary in a 2013 post.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Yes as OVERKILL has alluded too I was involved with this product very early in its life - late 1960s. It was really a road going version of the famous Shell R30 and R40 easter based racing lubricants. My family used these in racing motorcycle. I was involved in my Career training with Castrol via BMC
The road going version was Castrol Formula R Synthetic - rated API SE. It had a 15w-50 viscosity, was red in colour and of course emitted the beautiful castor based odour in use
In the 1970s and 1980s I used/field tested the probuct in many diesel and petrol engines as it evolved and this involved hundreds of UOAs. I visited Japan, US and Europe to deal with various engine manufacturers and in the use of this product. In some small high speed diesel engines (Kubota,Isuzu etc) we ran up to 3000hrs without change
Two versions were later marketed - one "exclusively by BMW". I met with some BMW and Castrol engine/product development people at the Nurburgring a few years ago at a 24Hr event. They spoke so highly of the product it still amazes me. They also told me that the last of the German Castrol development team had recently died. They said that I was probably the last of that mob - wow............!
A great product in the correct application
OP, I'm sure both Castrol & Shell (Pennzoil) make a great product and I would happily use either. I have used lots of Castrol 10W-60 over the years, and right now I am using GTL Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 (the other Ferrari grade oil). I would use both with confidence and would consider them equal ( without hard data to say otherwise).
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2988455
A bit of history from Doug Hillary in a 2013 post.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Yes as OVERKILL has alluded too I was involved with this product very early in its life - late 1960s. It was really a road going version of the famous Shell R30 and R40 easter based racing lubricants. My family used these in racing motorcycle. I was involved in my Career training with Castrol via BMC
The road going version was Castrol Formula R Synthetic - rated API SE. It had a 15w-50 viscosity, was red in colour and of course emitted the beautiful castor based odour in use
In the 1970s and 1980s I used/field tested the probuct in many diesel and petrol engines as it evolved and this involved hundreds of UOAs. I visited Japan, US and Europe to deal with various engine manufacturers and in the use of this product. In some small high speed diesel engines (Kubota,Isuzu etc) we ran up to 3000hrs without change
Two versions were later marketed - one "exclusively by BMW". I met with some BMW and Castrol engine/product development people at the Nurburgring a few years ago at a 24Hr event. They spoke so highly of the product it still amazes me. They also told me that the last of the German Castrol development team had recently died. They said that I was probably the last of that mob - wow............!
A great product in the correct application
OP, I'm sure both Castrol & Shell (Pennzoil) make a great product and I would happily use either. I have used lots of Castrol 10W-60 over the years, and right now I am using GTL Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 (the other Ferrari grade oil). I would use both with confidence and would consider them equal ( without hard data to say otherwise).
Originally Posted By: SR5
Doug Hillary has made a few posts about Castrol 10W-60, being part of the testing and development team. It has a long history and has many developmental changes along the way.
I don't think it's fair to say BMW learnt something and applied it to the Shell product, sort of implying there was no opportunity to the develop the Castrol product because it was finished and complete. I think there has always been a BMW - Castrol development feedback loop.
I'm thinking more big business deals, rather than chemistry.
Do not get me wrong. I think a lot of Castrol products are great. In the end, I am using one.
However, I do not see reason why Shell could not develop better or equal product.
I am not sure that castrol today is what it was before BP took over in 2000. I remember running so called "black Castrol" 15W40 in my cars in 1990's. That oil was reference for all other oils.
But today? Not sure.
Doug Hillary has made a few posts about Castrol 10W-60, being part of the testing and development team. It has a long history and has many developmental changes along the way.
I don't think it's fair to say BMW learnt something and applied it to the Shell product, sort of implying there was no opportunity to the develop the Castrol product because it was finished and complete. I think there has always been a BMW - Castrol development feedback loop.
I'm thinking more big business deals, rather than chemistry.
Do not get me wrong. I think a lot of Castrol products are great. In the end, I am using one.
However, I do not see reason why Shell could not develop better or equal product.
I am not sure that castrol today is what it was before BP took over in 2000. I remember running so called "black Castrol" 15W40 in my cars in 1990's. That oil was reference for all other oils.
But today? Not sure.
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Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
but it has to be better than the Liqui Moly junk that so many "enthusiasts" swear by.
Yes, the local Bimmer/P-car repair/racing place in Doylestown uses this stuff in the M 10W-60 apps (instead of the excellent Red Line 10W-60), even though they swear by Red Line for ALL other weights.
but it has to be better than the Liqui Moly junk that so many "enthusiasts" swear by.
Yes, the local Bimmer/P-car repair/racing place in Doylestown uses this stuff in the M 10W-60 apps (instead of the excellent Red Line 10W-60), even though they swear by Red Line for ALL other weights.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Haven't seen any data on the new oil, but it has to be better than the Liqui Moly junk that so many "enthusiasts" swear by.
yes, the local Bimmer/P-car repair/racing place in Doylestown uses this stuff in the M 10W-60 apps (instead of the excellent Red Line 10W-60), even though they swear by Red Line for ALL other weights.
Like on other tread about LM, only reason why people use LM is that it is Made in Germany, so people think it is uber oil. I was never fan of it.
As far as Redline, considering cst and HTHS, I think 10W50 should be also good.
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Haven't seen any data on the new oil, but it has to be better than the Liqui Moly junk that so many "enthusiasts" swear by.
yes, the local Bimmer/P-car repair/racing place in Doylestown uses this stuff in the M 10W-60 apps (instead of the excellent Red Line 10W-60), even though they swear by Red Line for ALL other weights.
Like on other tread about LM, only reason why people use LM is that it is Made in Germany, so people think it is uber oil. I was never fan of it.
As far as Redline, considering cst and HTHS, I think 10W50 should be also good.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Do not get me wrong. I think a lot of Castrol products are great. In the end, I am using one.
However, I do not see reason why Shell could not develop better or equal product.
I am not sure that castrol today is what it was before BP took over in 2000. I remember running so called "black Castrol" 15W40 in my cars in 1990's. That oil was reference for all other oils.
But today? Not sure.
Yeah I remember using Castrol synthetics in the 90's.
Formula R and TXT, they were some of the first oils that really impressed me and turned me into a Castrol fan. Along with the Penrite HPR series that turned me into a Penrite fan too.
These three oils, TXT, HPR and Formula R made me realize that not all oils were created equal.
Do not get me wrong. I think a lot of Castrol products are great. In the end, I am using one.
However, I do not see reason why Shell could not develop better or equal product.
I am not sure that castrol today is what it was before BP took over in 2000. I remember running so called "black Castrol" 15W40 in my cars in 1990's. That oil was reference for all other oils.
But today? Not sure.
Yeah I remember using Castrol synthetics in the 90's.
Formula R and TXT, they were some of the first oils that really impressed me and turned me into a Castrol fan. Along with the Penrite HPR series that turned me into a Penrite fan too.
These three oils, TXT, HPR and Formula R made me realize that not all oils were created equal.
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