using "Nitrogen" as a deal breaker

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Wow...that's just nuts....nitrogen nuts. Especially since the atmosphere is ~ 71% nitrogen.

Further, aren't the tires covered by the TIRE manufacturer, not the AUTO manufacturer??

"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
 
I think it's there so you and I can feel good about ourselves deleting it from the deal. "Yeah, dat dealer 'n tried to pull a fast one but I made 'em eat dog food on my deal."
 
I always use nitrogen in the tires I fill. If you have it available there is not much reason not to.
The main advantage is that it allows you to use a higher cold pressure while still maintaining the proper running (hot) pressure.
 
Originally Posted By: LubeLuke
I always use nitrogen in the tires I fill.


It would be hard not to!

Unless you have some way of pulling a really good vacuum, putting 100% nitrogen into a tire that already has a 78% nitrogen mix in it is negligible. I don't see it worth any amount of money except on race cars where they probably do many purge fills to get the % up.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: MWisBest
Originally Posted By: ejes
I can't remember where it is, but I just read a study where study showed, if I remember correctly, that regular air eventually seeps into the tire over time and dilutes whatever percentage of Nitrogen is in your tire.


Interesting, I had been under the impression that the opposite is true: the more you need to top up your tires with regular air, the higher the concentration of nitrogen gets. If oxygen is the problem and 'leaks out' like the nitrogen believers claim, and the nitrogen doesn't do that, then over time your tires eventually become more and more nitrogen-concentrated anyway.
When I got new tires last year I needed to add air fairly often. Now they're very stable, but of course correlation does not imply causation.
Nitrogen atoms are SMALLER than Oxygen and would leak more quickly. Rubber is a porous solid. Helium atoms are very small and leak when other gases won't. Sam Adams is selling BEER with Nitrogen added instead of CO2 the smaller bubbles are supposed to make it taste better. I'm waiting for someone to buy me one. May be a long wait.


Yes, Nitrogen atoms are smaller than oxygen atoms, but it's molecular Nitrogen and Oxygen in the air and molecular Nitrogen used in tires. Nitrogen molecules (N2) are larger than Oxygen molecules (O2) by around 3%. It's how the atoms are bound together, not the size of the individual atoms that makes Nitrogen slightly larger and therefore less likely to seep through the rubber.
 
FWIW we used nitrogen in our 1/2 mile paved stock car. Nitrogen expands less than air when it heats and changes the handling less as the outside tires heat faster. It does have a place but not so much on a street car.
 
Originally Posted By: bvance554
I wouldn't pay $5 for a 'nitrogen fill.' Utter nonsense.

I would pay 50 cents for nitrogen fill each tire, not a penny more.
 
Quote:
..."Nitrogen is factory spec and will void your warranty with normal air"
-Actual mazda Salesguy

Is the equivalent of another set of gases...HOT AIR.
 
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
FWIW we used nitrogen in our 1/2 mile paved stock car. Nitrogen expands less than air when it heats and changes the handling less as the outside tires heat faster. It does have a place but not so much on a street car.


Oh, really?

Please explain that one to me...

I'm wondering how 100% Nitrogen responds differently to PV=nRT than, say, a 78% Nitrogen/21% Oxygen mix responds...
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
FWIW we used nitrogen in our 1/2 mile paved stock car. Nitrogen expands less than air when it heats and changes the handling less as the outside tires heat faster. It does have a place but not so much on a street car.


Oh, really?

Please explain that one to me...

I'm wondering how 100% Nitrogen responds differently to PV=nRT than, say, a 78% Nitrogen/21% Oxygen mix responds...
N2 is dry, air has water in it.
 
If the air had water in it, then I would agree. So are we comparing humid air and dry nitrogen? Then, that's a phase change in water causing a pressure variance, not a property of the air per se...
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
If the air had water in it, then I would agree. So are we comparing humid air and dry nitrogen? Then, that's a phase change in water causing a pressure variance, not a property of the air per se...
Well I didn't know you used dry air for your tires.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: GumbyJarvis
"Nitrogen is factory spec and will void your warranty with normal air"
-Actual mazda Salesguy

That would be a deal breaker for me. However, I'd dare him to put it in writing first, and then fire a copy off to head office.

I would call his bluff and say, "Fine, go ahead and void the warranty. I'm still not paying for it." and see what happens. Since he can't void the warranty for that in the first place, you don't really have anything to lose.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: Astro14
If the air had water in it, then I would agree. So are we comparing humid air and dry nitrogen? Then, that's a phase change in water causing a pressure variance, not a property of the air per se...
Well I didn't know you used dry air for your tires.


Nearly every compressor creates relatively dry air...I make certain that mine is drained, so it's pretty dry. Even humid air wouldn't create the effect of phase variance...you would have to introduce liquid water into the tire...so, neither Nitrogen nor air really have this problem...

But then, that doesn't feed into the Nitrogen religion...or marketing...see Nitrogen Myth #8 in the video...
 
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