VW Routan Problems

[Scout1]

New addition to the stable is a 2009 VW Routan Minivan which is a rebadged Chrysler T&C with the 3.8L engine. History of the vehicle; 47k miles and run in an area with lots of salt on the roads up in the mountains so rust is an issue. Owned by a guy who passed away and I bought it from his daughter. She had lots of work done late last year on a driveablity issue where it was cutting out at 4100 RPM. I saw the report and they were troubleshooting the Camshaft Position and Crankshaft Position sensors but couldn't fix it so finally ended up replacing the PCM with apparent success. They also noted they had tested the alternator and saw some erratic behavior, but apparently didn't replace the alternator.

I bought it in January and the Van drives well but has thrown a DTC several times for evaporative emission system and even even had a "Loose fuel cap" message appear on the dashboard. I've replaced the fuel cap but still have that DTC pop up occasionally. Yesterday it threw P0340 and P0344 while on a freeway trip (Camshaft Position Sensor and Camshaft Position Sensor Intermittent). Hummm... those were diagnosed previously so now I'm suspicious.

The last piece of information is the van failed the charging system/battery test on my new scan tool. Basically the voltage hangs around mid 12 volts and the test wants it to go up when you rev the motor... but it stays low around 12 volts. However, the van seems to start and drive normally with no apparent signs of slow cranking or anything like that.

Do you guys think that these DTC's may be due to a failing alternator or perhaps old battery. I'm not sure how old the battery is in the van. Thoughts/advice?

 

[RooflessVW]

Could be a failing battery. Low voltage can cause some weird gremlins.

Also, as a former VW service rep, you'll have better luck taking your Routan to a Dodge/Chrysler dealer. The only tech we had that could make sense of the software used to work at Dodge. I know the badge says VW, but the electrical logic is totally different to what the VW trained guys are used to.

 

[eljefino]

The PCM controls the alt and seems to have its own imaginary gremlins. (Though beware it might be doing this for gas mileage and could have a minute at 14 volts at some point to put back into the battery what the starter took out.) I had a 2000 T&C and its low-lead solder cracked where pins went into PCMs and they put this potting compound in that was impossible to remove to reflow said solder.

It was a real [censored] show b/c used computers are vin tied to the vans they came out of, and the dealer refused to help reflash. I could have rented a DRB-III for 3 days for $150 to do it myself.

 

[irad]

Using a digital volt meter put it on AC millivolts. Put the probes on the battery terminals while the engine is running. You are looking for a ripple current that is throwing off sensors due to a failing alternator.

 

[Scout1]

Yeah, PCM software has been an issue on these from what I understand but since this was a re-manufactured unit installed in 2015 I'm assuming in that process they flashed to the latest software. Vin matching huh? That's not going to be good if I get to wanting a reflash!

 

[Scout1]

OK, I'll give that a try. I do have an old Fluke digital multi-meter. But you said AC milivolts, isn't the output rectified to DC coming out of the alternator? What exactly will a ripple current look like on that meter?

Also, I did another charging check with my Innova Scan Tool and this time the alternator passed with 13.8 volts at 2000 RPM but the battery still failed at 12 volts with the engine off. But when I put my Fluke Multimeter on the battery and measured voltage it read 13.5 volts. Later I measured it again and it had dropped to 12.3 volts and the Innova test said the PID was 12 volts and that was too low. I'm starting to think there might be some bonding and grounding issues as well as corroded connectors due to the salt environment this van lived in since 2009...

Again, it drives nicely and the codes aren't coming back so this is really an intermittent problem.

 

[eljefino]

BTW some dodges have had powers with computer grounds vs chassis, and the fix is to leave a scan tool plugged in all the time! Most scan tools short the two ground pins (4 & 5?) together and conveniently bring all grounds to the same level. Mechanics were going crazy with cars behaving with the computer connected.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Scout1
Also, I did another charging check with my Innova Scan Tool and this time the alternator passed with 13.8 volts at 2000 RPM but the battery still failed at 12 volts with the engine off. But when I put my Fluke Multimeter on the battery and measured voltage it read 13.5 volts. Later I measured it again and it had dropped to 12.3 volts and the Innova test said the PID was 12 volts and that was too low. I'm starting to think there might be some bonding and grounding issues as well as corroded connectors due to the salt environment this van lived in since 2009...

Again, it drives nicely and the codes aren't coming back so this is really an intermittent problem.

If the battery is OEM from 2009 I would replace it.

 

[Scout1]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
BTW some dodges have had powers with computer grounds vs chassis, and the fix is to leave a scan tool plugged in all the time! Most scan tools short the two ground pins (4 & 5?) together and conveniently bring all grounds to the same level. Mechanics were going crazy with cars behaving with the computer connected.

Yep, ran into that with my last Chrysler minivan (1999 Grand Caravan), it started with the scan tool plugged in but didn't run very well. Cleaned the extra wire on the battery post and ran like a dream! Could be something like that I suppose, the problem is finding the right connection to clean!

I did run the multi-meter on AC milli-amps and saw the reading at the battery post while engine running fluctuated between .02 and .05. Would that indicate a bad alternator?

 

[threeputtpar]

Was the title to this van clean and clear? It sounds like from what you've said that it's possibly a flood victim vehicle. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Scout1]

Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Was the title to this van clean and clear? It sounds like from what you've said that it's possibly a flood victim vehicle. I wish you the best of luck.


Yep, it has a clean title and Carfax showed no accidents for what it's worth and also showed regular maintenance visits at the dealer over the years. No sign of damage other than salt induced rust on the undercarriage and you can see where he had chains rubbing on the Aluminium wheels leaving some corrosion spots. Interior is great shape and you can tell the mileage is low by the overall condition of the vehicle. All the bells and whistles work fine including the automatic sliding doors. Engine looks clean down the fill hole (no sludge) and runs nice and quiet.

 

[Scout1]

Update; so the new battery didn't fix it, neither did cleaning all the engine bay grounds. I also replaced the plugs and plug wires since there was some melting going on with wires up against the EGR tube. But still periodically throws the CEL.

Something interesting however, I can make the CEL go on every time as I go over a bump in the freeway. Apparently it's a loose wire somewhere and when it shakes just right it throws the P0344 code for "Camshaft Position Sensor". I guess the next step is to try and trace the CMP sensor wires and see if one is bad? How do I do that? Anybody got a wiring schematic for this vehicle? I think that sensor is somewhere on the accessory end of the engine, but can't see it from up top. Where exactly is it?

Is there any chance it might be something mechanical like too much thrust on the camshaft so it moves just far enough the sensor doesn't pick up?

 

[eljefino]

You're on the right track. I'd idle it and grab the harnesses.

Hey, here's my junker 2000 T&C doing the same thing!