Japan taking over the motorcycle industry

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: JetStar


Harley guys have to do something to justify what they spend on their bikes to make themselves feel good about having a bike payment that's equivalent to most people's house payments...


Or you are just jealous that you can not afford a Harley, BMW or Indian as well as some other high quality bikes.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: dr2152
So someone else bashed a metric bike and you had to bash Harley's? That what my kids said when they were 10. Fact is Harley does not have rear cylinder failure problem due to heat. The old heat management system would alternate shutting down cylinders (rear and front). The new system that shuts down the rear cylinder is for rider comfort. The new bikes run cooler. My Honda must be shut off as it does not have a heat management system. Most of the Harley riders I know pay cash for their toys.

I'm glad you got a British bike. Now go ride it.


Fact is, Harleys do have problems with their rear cylinders overheating. Don't believe me, ask anyone who lives in a hot weather climate. The overheating is due to poor design. That circuit is not there just for rider comfort. But like all Harley guys, you just don't like facts when they put your beloved brand in a bad light. And yes, when people come in and take over a thread about metrics with their Harley garbage, I'm gonna say something. If you can't take the heat, don't start a fire. Now, this WAS a thread about Japanese bikes, so can we get back on topic?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: JetStar


Harley guys have to do something to justify what they spend on their bikes to make themselves feel good about having a bike payment that's equivalent to most people's house payments...


Or you are just jealous that you can not afford a Harley, BMW or Indian as well as some other high quality bikes.


I make 6 figures a year...I could easily afford a Harley, or any brand for that matter. I just don't see the need to spend $40 on a bike when I can get a better machine for less than half of that....

 

[Jarlaxle]

Harley-Davidson is being SUED by owners over excessive engine heat. Sorry, that is a bug, not a feature!

 

[dr2152]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: dr2152
So someone else bashed a metric bike and you had to bash Harley's? That what my kids said when they were 10. Fact is Harley does not have rear cylinder failure problem due to heat. The old heat management system would alternate shutting down cylinders (rear and front). The new system that shuts down the rear cylinder is for rider comfort. The new bikes run cooler. My Honda must be shut off as it does not have a heat management system. Most of the Harley riders I know pay cash for their toys.

I'm glad you got a British bike. Now go ride it.


Fact is, Harleys do have problems with their rear cylinders overheating. Don't believe me, ask anyone who lives in a hot weather climate. The overheating is due to poor design. That circuit is not there just for rider comfort. But like all Harley guys, you just don't like facts when they put your beloved brand in a bad light. And yes, when people come in and take over a thread about metrics with their Harley garbage, I'm gonna say something. If you can't take the heat, don't start a fire. Now, this WAS a thread about Japanese bikes, so can we get back on topic?


You have no facts. You took over the thread with your anti Harley made up stories. Anytime Harley comes up you are there bashing them and anyone who calls you out. Going out to work on the Honda. I'll use the Harley to pick up parts. Hope it doesn't overheat here in the south.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: grampi

If you can't take the heat, don't start a fire. Now, this WAS a thread about Japanese bikes, so can we get back on topic?


Correct and it was about Japan taking over the motorcycle market. They haven't, in fact they have retreated from the American market on their large cruisers is a huge way, unseen in decades. That is a fact, go educate yourself and look at the offerings from the makers on their own websites and see for yourself ... What has happened is the last few years.
Gd, the misinformation you spread around is amazing, but any one reading this thread can verify for themselves. Google is your friend.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: grampi
[/quote]

I make 6 figures a year...I could easily afford a Harley, or any brand for that matter. I just don't see the need to spend $40 on a bike when I can get a better machine for less than half of that....


Another spew of misinformation, you will never be able to prove. As any one in here can verify. If you really think that a $10,000 cruiser bike is going to be a match for a $20,000 Road King (or Indian, BMW etc) in fit,, finish, quality of materials, brakes, engine, ride, handling, performance, cruise control, ABS to name a few, then everyone can see its pointless reading your posts.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Harley-Davidson is being SUED by owners over excessive engine heat. Sorry, that is a bug, not a feature!


Did you research all the lawsuits brought up against ALL manufacturers or just singling out one, if even true.
BTW, in professional motorcycle reviews with a Harley against an Indian, they LOVED the performance of the Indian engine but said the heat was a much larger issue over the Harley, BTW, no matter the bike, large engine = heat.
Google is your friend.... And I just googled it, lawsuit from 4 years ago involving FOUR RIDERS, wow millions of motorcycle sold and you bring up a 4 to 5 year old lawsuit involving 4 riders, that is one heck of a big bug

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Harley-Davidson is being SUED by owners over excessive engine heat. Sorry, that is a bug, not a feature!

Since this is a Japan thread, here you go, read through the page of lawsuits against the Japanese makers, google is your friend...
Suzuki lawsuits

Lawsuits against Honda

Lawsuits against Kawasaki

Not that any of the above matters, there are lawsuits against ANY large company manufacturing any product.

 

[DriveHard]

I can't find any official statement from Harley stating why they have the rear cylinder de-activation other than for rider comfort, but I do suspect that they would not purposefully publish that it is needed to not cook an engine. I do know that I found an article published by Popular Mechanics that specifically states the purpose of the rear cylinder de-activation is to keep from cooking the engine.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/motorcycles/a11811/harley-davidson-rear-cylinder-cutout/

Harley-Davidson's air-cooled V-Twin remains a stubbornly anachronistic signature of the American motorcycle manufacturer, and its most potent expression comes in the form of the 110 cubic inch (1,803cc) Screamin' Eagle lump currently found in the CVO lineup. Producing 122 lb-ft of torque, this is the most powerful Harley engine to date; as such, an oil cooler can only go so in protecting this puppy from soaring temps.

How does Harley keep this mill from melting when mercury hits triple digits? One feature engineered into air-cooled Harley engines is a function called Rear Cylinder Cutout. Because the aft cylinder tends to run warmer since it doesn't benefit from the airflow that hits the front cylinder, RCC seeks to equalize the difference by shutting off fuel and spark to the back cylinder if the engine idles for more than 3 seconds above 288° F. Once the air-only mix drops the combustion chamber temperature to 275° F, normal operation resumes. RCC was introduced in 2008, and was actuated by a cable before the 2009 model year, when throttle-by-wire technology was introduced.

While automotive applications frequently implement cylinder deactivation for MPG improvements, we won't hold our breath for that functionality to be applied to bikes; after all, motorcyclists are usually more interested in staying cool than saving fuel.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: grampi


I make 6 figures a year...I could easily afford a Harley, or any brand for that matter. I just don't see the need to spend $40 on a bike when I can get a better machine for less than half of that....


Another spew of misinformation, you will never be able to prove. As any one in here can verify. If you really think that a $10,000 cruiser bike is going to be a match for a $20,000 Road King (or Indian, BMW etc) in fit,, finish, quality of materials, brakes, engine, ride, handling, performance, cruise control, ABS to name a few, then everyone can see its pointless reading your posts. [/quote]

For build quality, fit and finish, material quality, and design, I would put a Burgman 650 up against any Harley (or just about anything else) in a second.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: grampi


I make 6 figures a year...I could easily afford a Harley, or any brand for that matter. I just don't see the need to spend $40 on a bike when I can get a better machine for less than half of that....


Another spew of misinformation, you will never be able to prove. As any one in here can verify. If you really think that a $10,000 cruiser bike is going to be a match for a $20,000 Road King (or Indian, BMW etc) in fit,, finish, quality of materials, brakes, engine, ride, handling, performance, cruise control, ABS to name a few, then everyone can see its pointless reading your posts.


For build quality, fit and finish, material quality, and design, I would put a Burgman 650 up against any Harley (or just about anything else) in a second. [/quote]

You can't tell the Harley guys that. They are brainwashed into believing that a higher price equals better quality, when in reality, all they are paying for is a name and an image...I would put a Goldwing, a dressed out Victory, or an Indian up against a Harley any day in terms of any comparison and the Harley would be bested in every category...and as far as performance goes, Harleys wouldn't hold a candle to any of the metrics or the Vics or Indians...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: grampi

If you can't take the heat, don't start a fire. Now, this WAS a thread about Japanese bikes, so can we get back on topic?


Correct and it was about Japan taking over the motorcycle market. They haven't


As usual, you're wrong. The discussion was about how Japan took over the industry back in the 70s, which they did...Harley would've gone under if it weren't for Reagan's tariff that he put on the imports...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: grampi


I make 6 figures a year...I could easily afford a Harley, or any brand for that matter. I just don't see the need to spend $40 on a bike when I can get a better machine for less than half of that....


Another spew of misinformation, you will never be able to prove. As any one in here can verify. If you really think that a $10,000 cruiser bike is going to be a match for a $20,000 Road King (or Indian, BMW etc) in fit,, finish, quality of materials, brakes, engine, ride, handling, performance, cruise control, ABS to name a few, then everyone can see its pointless reading your posts. [/quote]

First off, there is no such thing as a $20K Road King anymore...maybe you haven't been to a Harley dealership lately, but you aren't gonna get anywhere near a new RK for less than AT LEAST $35K, and most of them are over $40K now. Secondly, there are plenty of metrics that have all these features and more, and in terms of performance, Harley isn't even in the same league as any of the other makes...they are way behind....

 

[alarmguy]

Your posts are a laughing joke, I have no need to reply to your uninformed remarks, ANYONE reading this thread can verify my statements, then yours, once they look at yours, you will look like a fool, who doesn't even own a Harley. Do yourself a favor, stick to the type of bike you own, then maybe, just maybe you will be able to post some factual information on it.
I own a fully loaded 2014 Road King with ABS, your remarks are so uninformed and uneducated it's stupid and stupid for me to reply. Cost for the Road King, 20k. Good god, anyone reading this thread, you truly look silly claiming at least 35k. Any and I mean any credibility anyone thought you had just went out the window.
Now that I think about it, maybe you would have bought one if you knew they were $15,000 LESS THEN YOU THOUGHT...jokes on you, over and out.

 

[alarmguy]

And why a burgman is for you.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Your posts are a laughing joke, I have no need to reply to your uninformed remarks, ANYONE reading this thread can verify my statements, then yours, once they look at yours, you will look like a fool, who doesn't even own a Harley. Do yourself a favor, stick to the type of bike you own, then maybe, just maybe you will be able to post some factual information on it.
I own a fully loaded 2014 Road King with ABS, your remarks are so uninformed and uneducated it's stupid and stupid for me to reply. Cost for the Road King, 20k. Good god, anyone reading this thread, you truly look silly claiming at least 35k. Any and I mean any credibility anyone thought you had just went out the window.
Now that I think about it, maybe you would have bought one if you knew they were $15,000 LESS THEN YOU THOUGHT...jokes on you, over and out.


Then you aren't buying them new from a dealership. I've been to 3 Harley dealerships in the last 2 months and they didn't have a single model that was 103 C.I or bigger, ANY MODEL, that was under $30K. There's no way you're going to buy a new RK for anything close to $20K, unless you are somehow getting them at dealer cost...but none of this surprises me, you Harley guys live in a fantasy world where you make up your own facts...

 

[757guy]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Your posts are a laughing joke, I have no need to reply to your uninformed remarks, ANYONE reading this thread can verify my statements, then yours, once they look at yours, you will look like a fool, who doesn't even own a Harley. Do yourself a favor, stick to the type of bike you own, then maybe, just maybe you will be able to post some factual information on it.
I own a fully loaded 2014 Road King with ABS, your remarks are so uninformed and uneducated it's stupid and stupid for me to reply. Cost for the Road King, 20k. Good god, anyone reading this thread, you truly look silly claiming at least 35k. Any and I mean any credibility anyone thought you had just went out the window.
Now that I think about it, maybe you would have bought one if you knew they were $15,000 LESS THEN YOU THOUGHT...jokes on you, over and out.



Then you aren't buying them new from a dealership. I've been to 3 Harley dealerships in the last 2 months and they didn't have a single model that was 103 C.I or bigger, ANY MODEL, that was under $30K. There's no way you're going to buy a new RK for anything close to $20K, unless you are somehow getting them at dealer cost...but none of this surprises me, you Harley guys live in a fantasy world where you make up your own facts...


Grampi,

I purchased a new 2014 Harley Davidson Fatboy for $14,500 in February 2015. (with the 103 motor) so I'm a little perplexed by your statement that the dealership " didn't have a single model that was 103 C.I. or bigger, ANY MODEL, that was under $30K."

I had been riding a Yamaha V-star cruiser that was 9 years old and was only worth around $3500. As I looked at used Harleys, I was amazed at how well they held their resale value. That's one thing that changed my opinion on Harley (not to mention how nice the fit and finish is compared to other manufacturers and the outstanding dealership network no matter where you are riding around the country). I had considered a Triumph Thunderbird Commander as well, but the resale value on those dropped like a rock after driving out the showroom floor. That, along with the limited dealer network, made me consider other domestic bikes. Victory and Indian were nice, but I didn't necessarily like the look of some of the Victory models, and Indian was heavy on the fender treatment and quite frankly, expensive considering their recent entry into the premium cruiser market. Final deciding factor for Harley-Davidson was the endless choice of high quality aftermarket accessories available.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I wanted you to understand my rational on why I chose to purchase a Harley-Davidson over the other bikes out there. I'm happy with my decision and that's all that matters to me.

Just my .02

Ride Safe!

 

[dr2152]

Originally Posted By: DriveHard
I can't find any official statement from Harley stating why they have the rear cylinder de-activation other than for rider comfort, but I do suspect that they would not purposefully publish that it is needed to not cook an engine. I do know that I found an article published by Popular Mechanics that specifically states the purpose of the rear cylinder de-activation is to keep from cooking the engine.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/motorcycles/a11811/harley-davidson-rear-cylinder-cutout/

Harley-Davidson's air-cooled V-Twin remains a stubbornly anachronistic signature of the American motorcycle manufacturer, and its most potent expression comes in the form of the 110 cubic inch (1,803cc) Screamin' Eagle lump currently found in the CVO lineup. Producing 122 lb-ft of torque, this is the most powerful Harley engine to date; as such, an oil cooler can only go so in protecting this puppy from soaring temps.

How does Harley keep this mill from melting when mercury hits triple digits? One feature engineered into air-cooled Harley engines is a function called Rear Cylinder Cutout. Because the aft cylinder tends to run warmer since it doesn't benefit from the airflow that hits the front cylinder, RCC seeks to equalize the difference by shutting off fuel and spark to the back cylinder if the engine idles for more than 3 seconds above 288° F. Once the air-only mix drops the combustion chamber temperature to 275° F, normal operation resumes. RCC was introduced in 2008, and was actuated by a cable before the 2009 model year, when throttle-by-wire technology was introduced.

While automotive applications frequently implement cylinder deactivation for MPG improvements, we won't hold our breath for that functionality to be applied to bikes; after all, motorcyclists are usually more interested in staying cool than saving fuel.


EITMS is purely for rider comfort. When it
activates and “shuts off” the rear cylinder, it’s
not because the motor is overheating. It’s
designed to reduce the heat radiating from
the rear cylinder to the rider.

 

[dr2152]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Your posts are a laughing joke, I have no need to reply to your uninformed remarks, ANYONE reading this thread can verify my statements, then yours, once they look at yours, you will look like a fool, who doesn't even own a Harley. Do yourself a favor, stick to the type of bike you own, then maybe, just maybe you will be able to post some factual information on it.
I own a fully loaded 2014 Road King with ABS, your remarks are so uninformed and uneducated it's stupid and stupid for me to reply. Cost for the Road King, 20k. Good god, anyone reading this thread, you truly look silly claiming at least 35k. Any and I mean any credibility anyone thought you had just went out the window.
Now that I think about it, maybe you would have bought one if you knew they were $15,000 LESS THEN YOU THOUGHT...jokes on you, over and out.


Then you aren't buying them new from a dealership. I've been to 3 Harley dealerships in the last 2 months and they didn't have a single model that was 103 C.I or bigger, ANY MODEL, that was under $30K. There's no way you're going to buy a new RK for anything close to $20K, unless you are somehow getting them at dealer cost...but none of this surprises me, you Harley guys live in a fantasy world where you make up your own facts...


Spec for 2016 Road king- Custom color $19,749 I didn't pay 30K for Ultra Limited


http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Motorcycles/road-king.html#!specs