Porsche and Mobil 1

[drtyler]

Not sure that Mobil officially stated what FS stands for, but Full SAPS makes sense given they also have the 0w-40 ESP for lower SAPS applications. At least it shows on their website, not sure of availability yet.

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
Do we really know FS stands for fuel saving? Why even look at a 40wt oil if fuel economy is the main concern?

I like Garak's ^&%$ Shell...it makes more sense LOL.

I think FS 3.6 HTHS makes sense if the GTL base stock is more shear stable than the old VISOM. All M1 0W40 UOAs at m3post.com show the oil tends to shear down to low to mid 12s from 13.2, and I'm sure that 3.8HTHS gets mighty close to 3.6 after you pile on some mileage.

So, in the end, with the new formula, the new 3.6 HTHS is the old 3.8 HTHS.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: drtyler
Not sure that Mobil officially stated what FS stands for, but Full SAPS makes sense given they also have the 0w-40 ESP for lower SAPS applications. At least it shows on their website, not sure of availability yet.

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
Do we really know FS stands for fuel saving? Why even look at a 40wt oil if fuel economy is the main concern?

I like Garak's ^&%$ Shell...it makes more sense LOL.

I think FS 3.6 HTHS makes sense if the GTL base stock is more shear stable than the old VISOM. All M1 0W40 UOAs at m3post.com show the oil tends to shear down to low to mid 12s from 13.2, and I'm sure that 3.8HTHS gets mighty close to 3.6 after you pile on some mileage.

So, in the end, with the new formula, the new 3.6 HTHS is the old 3.8 HTHS.

Previous one was Full SAPS also and they had ESP running by side.
ESP=Emission system protection, not mid SAPS or Low SAPS. I would say: Fuel Saving.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629


I think FS 3.6 HTHS makes sense if the GTL base stock is more shear stable than the old VISOM. All M1 0W40 UOAs at m3post.com show the oil tends to shear down to low to mid 12s from 13.2, and I'm sure that 3.8HTHS gets mighty close to 3.6 after you pile on some mileage.

So, in the end, with the new formula, the new 3.6 HTHS is the old 3.8 HTHS.


Prior to the "old" 3.8 HTHS version, there was the PAO version with IIRC, also a 3.6 (don't quote me on that) HTHS, which was the SM version, and had much better cold temp performance FWIW.

I drew some comparisons between the similarity to this "new" version and the PAO one from a few generations ago, as they are VERY similar in terms of many of the numbers.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: drtyler
Not sure that Mobil officially stated what FS stands for, but Full SAPS makes sense given they also have the 0w-40 ESP for lower SAPS applications. At least it shows on their website, not sure of availability yet.

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
Do we really know FS stands for fuel saving? Why even look at a 40wt oil if fuel economy is the main concern?

I like Garak's ^&%$ Shell...it makes more sense LOL.

I think FS 3.6 HTHS makes sense if the GTL base stock is more shear stable than the old VISOM. All M1 0W40 UOAs at m3post.com show the oil tends to shear down to low to mid 12s from 13.2, and I'm sure that 3.8HTHS gets mighty close to 3.6 after you pile on some mileage.

So, in the end, with the new formula, the new 3.6 HTHS is the old 3.8 HTHS.

Previous one was Full SAPS also and they had ESP running by side.
ESP=Emission system protection, not mid SAPS or Low SAPS. I would say: Fuel Saving.


ESP is low SAPS, and ran concurrently to the full-SAPS previous version.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: drtyler
Not sure that Mobil officially stated what FS stands for, but Full SAPS makes sense given they also have the 0w-40 ESP for lower SAPS applications. At least it shows on their website, not sure of availability yet.

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
Do we really know FS stands for fuel saving? Why even look at a 40wt oil if fuel economy is the main concern?

I like Garak's ^&%$ Shell...it makes more sense LOL.

I think FS 3.6 HTHS makes sense if the GTL base stock is more shear stable than the old VISOM. All M1 0W40 UOAs at m3post.com show the oil tends to shear down to low to mid 12s from 13.2, and I'm sure that 3.8HTHS gets mighty close to 3.6 after you pile on some mileage.

So, in the end, with the new formula, the new 3.6 HTHS is the old 3.8 HTHS.

Previous one was Full SAPS also and they had ESP running by side.
ESP=Emission system protection, not mid SAPS or Low SAPS. I would say: Fuel Saving.


ESP is low SAPS, and ran concurrently to the full-SAPS previous version.

Well that is my point. It ran long time ago concurrently with M1 0W40, so I would say FS is Fuel Saving.
ESP could be Mid or Low SAPS. M1 5W30 is Low, 5W40 that was used in MB dealerships was I would say Mid-SAPS.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

Well that is my point. It ran long time ago concurrently with M1 0W40, so I would say FS is Fuel Saving.
ESP could be Mid or Low SAPS. M1 5W30 is Low, 5W40 that was used in MB dealerships was I would say Mid-SAPS.


ESP is new to the American market, as is the FS moniker. So while ESP may not be "new" to the rest of the world, it may make sense that FS means "Full SAPS" in the context that both products were released to the American market at the same time, which makes that differentiation more logical.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

ESP is new to the American market,

M1 ESP 5w30 has been available here for years. Maybe even 10 years.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

ESP is new to the American market,

M1 ESP 5w30 has been available here for years. Maybe even 10 years.


Sorry, I meant specifically the 0w-40 ESP product, LOL!

Which would be the source of the confusion with two 0w-40's.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

ESP is new to the American market,

M1 ESP 5w30 has been available here for years. Maybe even 10 years.


Sorry, I meant specifically the 0w-40 ESP product, LOL!

Which would be the source of the confusion with two 0w-40's.

In that case, why havent they added "FS" to the regular M1 5w30?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

ESP is new to the American market,

M1 ESP 5w30 has been available here for years. Maybe even 10 years.


Sorry, I meant specifically the 0w-40 ESP product, LOL!

Which would be the source of the confusion with two 0w-40's.

In that case, why havent they added "FS" to the regular M1 5w30?


Perhaps because the regular 5w-30 isn't targeted at the Euro car market?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Good point.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Good point.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

ESP is new to the American market,

M1 ESP 5w30 has been available here for years. Maybe even 10 years.


Sorry, I meant specifically the 0w-40 ESP product, LOL!

Which would be the source of the confusion with two 0w-40's.

Tell me where is M1 0W40 ESP? I would switch immediately to that, but where to find it?
I know about PDS, but where you can buy it?

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

ESP is new to the American market,

M1 ESP 5w30 has been available here for years. Maybe even 10 years.


Sorry, I meant specifically the 0w-40 ESP product, LOL!

Which would be the source of the confusion with two 0w-40's.

In that case, why havent they added "FS" to the regular M1 5w30?


Perhaps because the regular 5w-30 isn't targeted at the Euro car market?

[/quote
Would regular SN 5w30 M1 even meet the criteria of full SAPS specifications like 10+ min. TBN? I'm not sure but I think regular SN, GF5 are around 7-8 which makes them low or mid SAPS (at least on that single requirement) in ACEA realm.
They (ACEA) purposely changed min TBN from 8 to 10 in last sequences to better separate C3 and A3/B3 or B4 and not letting them to overlap like they did in mid 2000s.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
Do we really know FS stands for fuel saving? Why even look at a 40wt oil if fuel economy is the main concern?

I like Garak's ^&%$ Shell...it makes more sense LOL.

Until I see evidence otherwise, that's what I'm going to imagine it is. I'm sure if someone from XOM ever does come across this thread in some unlikely scenario, at least I hope they'll get a laugh from it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

ESP is new to the American market,

M1 ESP 5w30 has been available here for years. Maybe even 10 years.


Sorry, I meant specifically the 0w-40 ESP product, LOL!

Which would be the source of the confusion with two 0w-40's.

Tell me where is M1 0W40 ESP? I would switch immediately to that, but where to find it?
I know about PDS, but where you can buy it?


No idea, the US PDS only showed up a month or so ago so I am sure you will see it soon enough.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Would regular SN 5w30 M1 even meet the criteria of full SAPS specifications like 10+ min. TBN?

Another valid point. M1 5w-30 has SA level of 0.8%. What SA level do you need to be considered full SAPS? Greater than 1%?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chrisri

Would regular SN 5w30 M1 even meet the criteria of full SAPS specifications like 10+ min. TBN? I'm not sure but I think regular SN, GF5 are around 7-8 which makes them low or mid SAPS (at least on that single requirement) in ACEA realm.
They (ACEA) purposely changed min TBN from 8 to 10 in last sequences to better separate C3 and A3/B3 or B4 and not letting them to overlap like they did in mid 2000s.


Probably not and as QP said, good point

However it (M1 5w-30) isn't targeted at the Euro market and has no Euro OEM approvals so I would guess there isn't the risk of it being cross-shopped with the ESP 5w-30 that Mobil may fear exists with the M1 Euro 0w-40 and the ESP 0w-40

Just my take away from the whole labelling fiasco, LOL!

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Would regular SN 5w30 M1 even meet the criteria of full SAPS specifications like 10+ min. TBN?

Another valid point. M1 5w-30 has SA level of 0.8%. What SA level do you need to be considered full SAPS? Greater than 1%?



Ah but what about the P and the S in terms of SAPS?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Would regular SN 5w30 M1 even meet the criteria of full SAPS specifications like 10+ min. TBN?

Another valid point. M1 5w-30 has SA level of 0.8%. What SA level do you need to be considered full SAPS? Greater than 1%?



Ah but what about the P and the S in terms of SAPS?


The levels are a fair bit lower than those found in a full-SAPS lube like M1 0w-40. It is probably, a mid-SAPS product by this metric.