Low NOACK, SAPS and TEOST oil for DI engine

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Matt_V

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I have a 2016 Ford Fiesta ST with the 1.6L DI Ecoboost engine. As I've done research, I've learned that DI engines are susceptible to carbon and oil build up in the intake and valves.

The one thing that can help alleviate or slow this down is by using an engine oil with low NOACK, SAPS % and TEOST.

I found this guide here showing some numbers for 5W-20 oils that fall in these categories: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18I-xK-pJfhhYMdxC6bhx8cnBLhFZq0AM4a7BtyZzTfc/htmlview

Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 seems to be the lowest in NOACK and TEOST but no SAPS information. After that, the next lowest NOACK is Pennzoil Platinum.

Any other suggestions that would follow this criteria? I also have a baffled oil catch can on the PCV valve side to help alleviate buildup as much as possible. The car only has 500 miles so I want to do what I can to ensure issues don't happen in the future.
 
I looked at Amsoil SS 5W30 for my DIT engine and it had very high calcium...everything else looked wonderful. I have no idea about the 5W20 and do not remember where I found the calcium concentration.
I have concerns similar to yours and am planning to try M1 5W30 ESP for my next change.
 
I would go with Mobil 1 0w20 which has a NOACK of 10% (confirmed with Mobil). (70% PAO per MSDS). It also has a SA of.8%. A better deposit test IMO is the Honda HTO-06 test, which tests used oil rather than new. The Mobil 1 5w20 EP could possibly even have a lower NOaCK rating. My 2nd choice would be Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines

Quote:
The motor oil industry uses a proprietary Honda high-temperature deposit test to measure an oil’s resistance to deposit formation in turbochargers. In the severe-service test with turbochargers, Mobil 1™ 5W-30 advanced full synthetic oil displayed superior performance compared to a competitive full synthetic oil as well as our own conventional oil (which met industry-standard GF-5/API SN requirements).


Quote:
Main feature is a modified hot-tube test. Purpose:
• Evaluate the deposit-forming tendency of an oil after aging. (Testing an oil in fresh condition only is not useful.)
• The aging procedure simulates additive consumption and sludge/soot build-up.
1. Moisture & NOx Bubbling
2. Sludge/Soot Simulation
3. Hot Tube
• Procedure is available to lubricant and additive companies upon request.
• This procedure does not discriminate against high-moly oils. (High-moly oils are not a problem for Honda turbocharger technology.)
• This test correlates well with Honda turbocharger testing (bench and real-world).
 
I'm going with M1 0w40 (VW 502 oil), likely LC20 after 1st or 2nd OCI and RLI Bio-Plus fuel treatment.

LC20 was beloved previously, and Terry and Mola's comments make it seem great at breaking up carbon. So hopefully blowby won't stick. The RLI fuel treatment was recommended by Audi owners trying to resolve DI deposits.


1.8T in my Sportwagen. I'd like to think this will be preventative enough. Older VW/Audi had lots of carbon buildup. This latest TSI uses a port injector in EU, but not the North American version - DI only. Still too new to have owner feedback, I believe (2015+ models).
 
Please note that Ford recommends 5W-20 for my engine so that may limit some choices.

Is Pennzoil Platinum the next best choice in this case? Or Mobil1 0W-20 as a previous member mentioned? Another concern is low calcium, for oils low in NOACK, Calcium seems to be high.
 
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I've been doing a lot of research on this, as well, as I have a new WRX coming, which is also TGDI.

Not sure if the Fiesta has this issue, but the 2015+ WRX tends to dilute the oil with fuel, quite a bit, especially in colder weather. That, coupled with shearing, causes the spec'd oil (ILSAC GF-5/SN-RC 5W-30) to end up as a 20-grade after a few thousand miles.

What I'm most concerned about with these engines is not really the fuel - it's minimizing intake tract deposits. The key to that seems to be a stable oil with mid or low-SAPS. I think the catch can is a great idea, as well.
 
buster - is that wear test comparable to TEOST or is that referring to something else? And do you have any concern with calcium levels?
 
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Beware the spreadsheet....always beware of the spreadsheet. I've never seen 5w-20 Pennzoil Platinum with a NOACK listed as 6.5%...conventional, yes. Old formula Ultra, yes. Formulas change often enough that information often doesn't have relevancy if it's a couple years old or if they're taking the information from 2013 or older specs. Typically, SOPUS oils have a lower NOACK and I'm questioning the 13.5% for QSUD when that's about where the QS green bottle lands in terms of NOACK. I believe PQIA tested QSUD 5w-30 and it was just under 10 if I remember correctly.
 
Subscribing to this as I am considering the same car (Fiesta ST).
wink.gif
 
Pennzoil now states the NOACK for PP 5W-20 is 8.6 but the file is dated from 04/14.

http://www.pennzoil.com/wp-content/uploa...GF-5-en-TDS.pdf

The important question here is that between NOACK, TEOST, SAPS and calcium which are the one to consider the most? I seem to find oils that have 2/4 going for them but none that have low enough of all 4. PP is loaded with calcium for example and has moderately high SAPS but low TEOST and NOACK.

Castrol Edge (black bottle) has a NOACK of 11.7, which is rather high, but a low TEOST of 3.5mg. I can't seem to find any info on SAPS info. Calcium is around 2200ppm.

Mobil1 0W-20 may indeed be the answer. Is it the EP type or standard that is the better of the two?

My concern for the next three years is warranty as well. Mobil 0W-20 doesn't meet Ford WSS-M2C945-A and Ford WSS-M2C930-A specificatons either, so that could be a possible issue.
 
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Originally Posted By: Matt_V
Pennzoil now states the NOACK for PP 5W-20 is 8.6 but the file is dated from 04/14.

http://www.pennzoil.com/wp-content/uploa...GF-5-en-TDS.pdf

The important question here is that between NOACK, TEOST, SAPS and calcium which are the one to consider the most? I seem to find oils that have 2/4 going for them but none that have low enough of all 4. PP is loaded with calcium for example and has moderately high SAPS but low TEOST and NOACK.

Castrol Edge (black bottle) has a NOACK of 11.7, which is rather high, but a low TEOST of 3.5mg. I can't seem to find any info on SAPS info. Calcium is around 2200ppm.

Mobil1 0W-20 may indeed be the answer. Is it the EP type or standard that is the better of the two?

My concern for the next three years is warranty as well. Mobil 0W-20 doesn't meet Ford WSS-M2C945-A and Ford WSS-M2C930-A specificatons either, so that could be a possible issue.


Can you run a 5W-20? NOACK on a 5W-20 should be lower than a 0W-20.
 
Originally Posted By: Matt_V
My concern for the next three years is warranty as well. Mobil 0W-20 doesn't meet Ford WSS-M2C945-A and Ford WSS-M2C930-A specificatons either, so that could be a possible issue.


This would be my primary concern. Powertrain warranty rides on this, so everything is secondary. Quite honestly, I'd be looking for a Dexos 1 oil that also meets your WSS requirements. With the Dexos spec, you have a guaranteed NOACK <13, SA <1.0, and GM's TEOST limit of <3.5, all of which are ideal for GDI motors. I wouldn't sweat the calcium as Ford's 1.6s aren't generally prone to LSPI like some others. I would stay away from really high calcium oils like Amsoil SS.
 
Well considering MC Semi-Synthetic 5w-20 which is the spec oil for that vehicle has a NOACK at 15.2% and has high calcium according to the PQIA test in 2013, Ford clearly doesn't think these are issues. I have yet to see a real world test that shows that a lower NOACK % is directly tied to reducing intake valve deposits. So unless someone posts a real independent test, the BITOG community is just guessing that it will reduce the deposits.

Pick whatever oil helps you sleep at night and meets Ford's recommendations. Frankly you really can't go wrong with any of the major brands of synthetic be it M1 or MSS, Edge or Magnatec, PP or PU, QSUD, Syntec, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: zuluplus30

This would be my primary concern. Powertrain warranty rides on this, so everything is secondary. Quite honestly, I'd be looking for a Dexos 1 oil that also meets your WSS requirements. With the Dexos spec, you have a guaranteed NOACK div>


Well said and i agree on all counts.
 
I think Castrol Edge (black) 5W-20 might be a good fit then. Low TEOST, low NOACK from the sound of it based on Dexos spec and that would make it fall under low SA as well. Calcium is around 2300ppm compared to Amsoil SS at 4000+.

NOACK is 11.7 based on PQIA testing. I think this will be the oil for me after this next change, I'm currently on Castrol Magnatec, which I don't think is Dexos approved.
 
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Castrol Magnatec 5W-20 is also Dexos. I wish I could find a VOA on it. Maybe I'll be the guinea pig and do a UOA after 5,000 miles.
 
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