A set of Pirelli P6 tires I recently aquired have "Inner" and "Outer" markings on them, but the design appears non-directional. Anyone come across this? Is there any logic to running them this way vs inside-out/backwards?
Inner and Outer stamps on non-directional tires
- Thread starter spavel6
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Some construct the belts in a way that even if the tread is not 'directional' the tire is. The over lap of the belt ends run friendlier in one direction.
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I guess they are asymmetrical, but not directional tires.
They are designed for the outside of the tire to take cornering loads better. I imagine if your ran one side of the car correctly and the other side inside out, you could tell pretty easily after some hard turns.
Running the fronts correctly and the rears inside out could result in lots of oversteer too, so I'd mount them properly especially since they look to be wearing evenly.
They are designed for the outside of the tire to take cornering loads better. I imagine if your ran one side of the car correctly and the other side inside out, you could tell pretty easily after some hard turns.
Running the fronts correctly and the rears inside out could result in lots of oversteer too, so I'd mount them properly especially since they look to be wearing evenly.
Just to clarify - There is no marked direction, only marked which sidewall should be mounted facing out.
Originally Posted By: spavel6
Just to clarify - There is no marked direction, only marked which sidewall should be mounted facing out.
That tire is a bit odd since the tread design is symmetrical, but on lots of the older DOT R-comp tires, they would have a non directional, asymmetric tread design
The two gooves go on the inside in this case.
It seems now though that almost every asymmetric tire is also directional.
Just to clarify - There is no marked direction, only marked which sidewall should be mounted facing out.
That tire is a bit odd since the tread design is symmetrical, but on lots of the older DOT R-comp tires, they would have a non directional, asymmetric tread design
The two gooves go on the inside in this case.
It seems now though that almost every asymmetric tire is also directional.
Originally Posted By: spavel6
Just to clarify - There is no marked direction, only marked which sidewall should be mounted facing out.
Right, now that I think about it...Iwas thinking about a "rotate" mark on the tire. The tread may look symmetrical but perhaps the rubber compound is different across the tread?
Just to clarify - There is no marked direction, only marked which sidewall should be mounted facing out.
Right, now that I think about it...Iwas thinking about a "rotate" mark on the tire. The tread may look symmetrical but perhaps the rubber compound is different across the tread?
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Some construct the belts in a way that even if the tread is not 'directional' the tire is. The over lap of the belt ends run friendlier in one direction.
That makes no sense in this case.. because if you cross-rotate they will change direction of rotation.
On modern tires even if they were directional usually its the tread design and construction(for handling).
The belts still would be find rotating in both directions.
There is of course specific tires this can be true for.
But for the majority of tires its an internet myth left over from old tire days.
The most likely correct answer is the inside and outside shoulder construction and/or tread differ.
Some construct the belts in a way that even if the tread is not 'directional' the tire is. The over lap of the belt ends run friendlier in one direction.
That makes no sense in this case.. because if you cross-rotate they will change direction of rotation.
On modern tires even if they were directional usually its the tread design and construction(for handling).
The belts still would be find rotating in both directions.
There is of course specific tires this can be true for.
But for the majority of tires its an internet myth left over from old tire days.
The most likely correct answer is the inside and outside shoulder construction and/or tread differ.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It seems now though that almost every asymmetric tire is also directional.
How does that work? you can cross rotate asymmetric tires and that changes the direction of travel but inside is still inside and outside outside.
There are many season tires are asymmetric non-directional.
an example would be the michelin defender.
Asymmetric, non-directional, marked inside and outside.
Symmetric tires seem to be on the decline. And directional is becoming more popular(not sure why?)
It seems now though that almost every asymmetric tire is also directional.
How does that work? you can cross rotate asymmetric tires and that changes the direction of travel but inside is still inside and outside outside.
There are many season tires are asymmetric non-directional.
an example would be the michelin defender.
Asymmetric, non-directional, marked inside and outside.
Symmetric tires seem to be on the decline. And directional is becoming more popular(not sure why?)
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It seems now though that almost every asymmetric tire is also directional.
How does that work? you can cross rotate asymmetric tires and that changes the direction of travel but inside is still inside and outside outside.
There are many season tires are asymmetric non-directional.
Symmetric tires seem to be on the decline. And directional is becoming more popular(not sure why?)
All you can do with directional tires is swap front to back, and if you get them flipped on the rims you can switch to the other side of the car and inside to outside on the tire. Almost all snow tires are directional, and the inner shoulder while on the rear tends to wear fastest on my Focus so I may flip the tires this summer. I'll have to do some measuring to see if its worth it.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It seems now though that almost every asymmetric tire is also directional.
How does that work? you can cross rotate asymmetric tires and that changes the direction of travel but inside is still inside and outside outside.
There are many season tires are asymmetric non-directional.
Symmetric tires seem to be on the decline. And directional is becoming more popular(not sure why?)
All you can do with directional tires is swap front to back, and if you get them flipped on the rims you can switch to the other side of the car and inside to outside on the tire. Almost all snow tires are directional, and the inner shoulder while on the rear tends to wear fastest on my Focus so I may flip the tires this summer. I'll have to do some measuring to see if its worth it.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
All you can do with directional tires is swap front to back, and if you get them flipped on the rims you can switch to the other side of the car and inside to outside on the tire.
That's exactly what I would like to do to even out the wear. Mine happen to be wearing more on the outside, so I'd like to put it into the inside by remounting to the other side.
All you can do with directional tires is swap front to back, and if you get them flipped on the rims you can switch to the other side of the car and inside to outside on the tire.
That's exactly what I would like to do to even out the wear. Mine happen to be wearing more on the outside, so I'd like to put it into the inside by remounting to the other side.
I just had a new set of Cooper Ultra Touring CS5s installed. They're marked for inside and outside, and the tread is asymmetrical.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
I just had a new set of Cooper Ultra Touring CS5s installed. They're marked for inside and outside, and the tread is asymmetrical.
Same with the GY Sport AS tires I just had installed.
I actually looked very closely at the CS5 Ultras from WalMart, but the issue was that I had separate wheels with no tires mounted and would have either needed to have WM mount the tires or figure out some way to carry the new tires AND the wheels together to an installer I trusted more.
Ended up taking the easy route and getting the GYs from TireRack shipped to a recommended installer of theirs that I was happy with. About the same total price per tire.
I just had a new set of Cooper Ultra Touring CS5s installed. They're marked for inside and outside, and the tread is asymmetrical.
Same with the GY Sport AS tires I just had installed.
I actually looked very closely at the CS5 Ultras from WalMart, but the issue was that I had separate wheels with no tires mounted and would have either needed to have WM mount the tires or figure out some way to carry the new tires AND the wheels together to an installer I trusted more.
Ended up taking the easy route and getting the GYs from TireRack shipped to a recommended installer of theirs that I was happy with. About the same total price per tire.
Originally Posted By: spavel6
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
All you can do with directional tires is swap front to back, and if you get them flipped on the rims you can switch to the other side of the car and inside to outside on the tire.
That's exactly what I would like to do to even out the wear. Mine happen to be wearing more on the outside, so I'd like to put it into the inside by remounting to the other side.
Hmm, that starts to get into a grey area, I assume you are driving these pretty hard to wear the outer shoulder? I would assume the tires wouldn't work as well flipped, but maybe a pressure increase would fix that?
Personally I feel pretty comfortable abusing tires if I'm will within its load rating(running winters in summer, etc.), but if your car is heavy for them and you are driving hard enough on the street to wear the outside edges, you might find bad things could happen running them inside out, especially at normal or slightly lower pressures.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
All you can do with directional tires is swap front to back, and if you get them flipped on the rims you can switch to the other side of the car and inside to outside on the tire.
That's exactly what I would like to do to even out the wear. Mine happen to be wearing more on the outside, so I'd like to put it into the inside by remounting to the other side.
Hmm, that starts to get into a grey area, I assume you are driving these pretty hard to wear the outer shoulder? I would assume the tires wouldn't work as well flipped, but maybe a pressure increase would fix that?
Personally I feel pretty comfortable abusing tires if I'm will within its load rating(running winters in summer, etc.), but if your car is heavy for them and you are driving hard enough on the street to wear the outside edges, you might find bad things could happen running them inside out, especially at normal or slightly lower pressures.
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It seems now though that almost every asymmetric tire is also directional.
How does that work? you can cross rotate asymmetric tires and that changes the direction of travel but inside is still inside and outside outside.
There are many season tires are asymmetric non-directional.
an example would be the michelin defender.
Asymmetric, non-directional, marked inside and outside.
Symmetric tires seem to be on the decline. And directional is becoming more popular(not sure why?)
Tire can be asymmetric and directional. The last I remember was BFGoodrich KD.
There were left and right tires made.
Here is left tire:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bfg-75795
And here is right one
http://m.samsclub.com/ip/bfgoodrich-g-force-t-a-kd-205-50zr15-right/151599
Krzys
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It seems now though that almost every asymmetric tire is also directional.
How does that work? you can cross rotate asymmetric tires and that changes the direction of travel but inside is still inside and outside outside.
There are many season tires are asymmetric non-directional.
an example would be the michelin defender.
Asymmetric, non-directional, marked inside and outside.
Symmetric tires seem to be on the decline. And directional is becoming more popular(not sure why?)
Tire can be asymmetric and directional. The last I remember was BFGoodrich KD.
There were left and right tires made.
Here is left tire:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bfg-75795
And here is right one
http://m.samsclub.com/ip/bfgoodrich-g-force-t-a-kd-205-50zr15-right/151599
Krzys
Is it because the Department Of Transportation (DOT) information must always face outwards by law?
Thought I read/saw that. Is all the DOT info on both sidewalls of all tires?
Thought I read/saw that. Is all the DOT info on both sidewalls of all tires?
Originally Posted By: GravelRoad
Is it because the Department Of Transportation (DOT) information must always face outwards by law?
Thought I read/saw that. Is all the DOT info on both sidewalls of all tires?
Just a clarification:
The regulations about the DOT code call for the complete code to be on the side INTENDED out - which in the case of a WSW tire is the side with the whitewall.
The other side only needs to have a partial DOT code (everything but the date code.
This has been in place since 2008.
Is it because the Department Of Transportation (DOT) information must always face outwards by law?
Thought I read/saw that. Is all the DOT info on both sidewalls of all tires?
Just a clarification:
The regulations about the DOT code call for the complete code to be on the side INTENDED out - which in the case of a WSW tire is the side with the whitewall.
The other side only needs to have a partial DOT code (everything but the date code.
This has been in place since 2008.
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Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Just a clarification:
The regulations about the DOT code call for the complete code to be on the side INTENDED out - which in the case of a WSW tire is the side with the whitewall.
So are you saying the INSIDE and OUTSIDE markings could be there just to comply with this rule?
Just a clarification:
The regulations about the DOT code call for the complete code to be on the side INTENDED out - which in the case of a WSW tire is the side with the whitewall.
So are you saying the INSIDE and OUTSIDE markings could be there just to comply with this rule?
Originally Posted By: spavel6
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Just a clarification:
The regulations about the DOT code call for the complete code to be on the side INTENDED out - which in the case of a WSW tire is the side with the whitewall.
So are you saying the INSIDE and OUTSIDE markings could be there just to comply with this rule?
No, that would be an unusual interpretation of what the rules are.
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Just a clarification:
The regulations about the DOT code call for the complete code to be on the side INTENDED out - which in the case of a WSW tire is the side with the whitewall.
So are you saying the INSIDE and OUTSIDE markings could be there just to comply with this rule?
No, that would be an unusual interpretation of what the rules are.
My guess would be that the tire construction is not the same on the inside and outside corners.
It is not uncommon for tires to have a more rounded edge on the outside and more acute edge on the inside.
This is evidenced on tires such as Bridgestone RE003 and some race tires.
It is not uncommon for tires to have a more rounded edge on the outside and more acute edge on the inside.
This is evidenced on tires such as Bridgestone RE003 and some race tires.
Outer/inner sidewall refers to the mounting of asymmetric tyres only. These tyres have different tread patterns on their inner and outer sides, offering improved performance, and must be fitted correctly.
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