New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
1,807
Location
Houston, Texas
This is a cut and post of a new AC Delco PF1250 (25014520).
Date code: 15125ES 12:41 Product of USA
Birthday: May 5, 2015 12:41

The as built condition of the filter is very good and includes design improvements I will address. In many respects, this is a work of art compared to other filters made by other manufacturers.


zr1fn.jpg

IMG_0539-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Exterior Label
Good looking blue paint scheme with a stick on label that is easily read.


2lbl0dh.jpg

IMG_0541-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Date Code
Date Code: 15125ES 12:41 Product of USA
Birth Date: May 5, 2015 12:41


2ptuog5.jpg

IMG_0542-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Base End
You can see the gasket, auxiliary base plate, some of the inlet holes and the edge of some of the bypass holes.


j9c18h.jpg

IMG_0543-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Base End #2
Portions of the anti drain back valve are visible, thread end and small portion of the cage and filter media.
Some manufacturers crimp the base plate to hold the gasket but this one has bumps on the ID of the gasket.


bi3tjo.jpg

IMG_0544-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Base plate interior
The surgery begins with an interior view of the base plate. No problems or rust noted here. The 8 inlet holes and 6 bypass holes were sufficiently deburred.


2dtp0k7.jpg

IMG_0545-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Combo Valve on thread end of filter
Combo valve and interior gasket appeared well centered by the nubs on the thread end filter end cap.


2vb06lk.jpg

IMG_0546-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Combo valve on thread end #2
Angled view of the combo valve and also showing the core. There are 8 vertical supports on this filter. The last one I cut&posted had the 4 vertical supports. The new one also has more rings to support the media. This greatly reduces the window size and I believe supports the media better than the old design and should reduce the risk of a media blow out while still maintaining a free flowing design. The Combo valve was also pliable and I believe would serve it's purpose.


2eyxfzl.jpg

IMG_0547-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter 0 degrees
Nice even pleat spacing in the 0 degree sector. The two closest pleats are the splice as the glued end is turned into the core.


105bf2d.jpg

IMG_0548-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter 90 degrees
Nice even pleat spacing in the 90 degree sector. No pleat spaces greater than 0.25" wide.


244r53m.jpg

IMG_0549-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter 180 degrees
Nice even pleat spacing in the 180 degree sector. No pleat spaces greater than 0.25" wide.


2ajcrut.jpg

IMG_0550-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter 270 degrees
Nice even pleat spacing in the 270 degree sector. No pleat spaces greater than 0.25" wide.


29oiweb.jpg

IMG_0551-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter dome end with combo valve in place
This is a dome end view without the leaf spring in place. The combo valve is in place on the base plate. The 8 vertical supports are in clear view. The 5 intermediate rings are visible while the top and bottom ring can not be seen.


20jmn9g.jpg

IMG_0552-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Leaf spring
The leaf spring actually seals quite tightly in the dome end of the filter and holds everything together very well.


2ecgc50.jpg

IMG_0553-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Combo valve on base plate
The combo valve has a relatively wide land to seal against the base plate and does not interfere with the inlet or bypass holes.


66z2xl.jpg

IMG_0554-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter thread end
They almost missed the mark on the thread end filter end cap.


2ilh560.jpg

IMG_0556-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter on base plate without combo valve
This view clearly shows the bypass inlet holes are well within the ID of the cage.


30il2ti.jpg

IMG_0557-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter without dome end cap
The end cap was not as easily pulled off as the previous AC Delco PF1250 that I cut & posted. Pleat spacing was very even and glued well.


18zlft.jpg

IMG_0558-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-New style cage
The new cage has 8 verticle supports and 7 rings to support the media. This design change reduces the window size and the vertical supports can also lend support to the media. A free flowing design with reduced risk of media blowout. I prefer this design over the old one.


xckd8n.jpg

IMG_0559-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-New style cage #2
Second view of the new cage.


27zls94.jpg

IMG_0560-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Old vs New style cage
Side by side old cage on the left with new cage on the right. The new cage has 8 verticle supports and 7 rings to support the media. This design change reduces the window size and the vertical supports can also lend support to the media. A free flowing design with reduced risk of media blowout. I prefer this design over the old one.


The measurements:
Filter assembly height: 2-3/16"
Paper width: 2-1/8"
Number of pleats: 54
2X pleat depth: 1.5"
Media area: 172.125 sq in.
Filter OD: 3-3/16"
Core OD: 1-11/16"
Core ID: 1-1/2"
4 pleats were 0.25" wide
Thread end cap peeled off very easily
Cage height: 2-1/8"
8 vertical supports 45 degrees apart
7 circles on 1/3" centers


In summary this is a well manufactured filter with a new cage design. The dome end fiber cap peeled off with a good amount of effort I do not think this will be a problem in use. The end caps of the Champ Labs PH820 were very tightly glued and I tore the fiber end cap getting it off on that cut and post. There were four 0.25" wide pleats which I don't believe would cause a problem either. I prefer to use one with the new cage design over the old cage design. I really do not have the necessary equipment to evaluate the media but this media looks pretty good and potentially thicker than the Champ Labs PH820.

If I had old ones in the stash, I would not pitch them, I would check them out and use them up if they don't cause issues.

There is one thing missing in these photos. There is absolutely no RUST!!!

In about 1 month, I will have 5000 miles on one with the new cage design to do a used filter cut and post.


Until then, enjoy the post.


Related links:

New AC Delco PF1250 old design cut and post
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4023398/New_AC_Delco_PF1250_%2825014520%29

New WIX 51372
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ut_#Post4009590

Unused CarQuest R85372-A43301
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...cut#Post4002381

Unused Champ PH820-011514ES1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...d_c#Post3998005

Unused Motorcraft FL-820S-909031527
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3997575/Motorcraft_FL-820S_Date_code:_#Post3997575

Used (Torn) Motorcraft FL-820S-904121217
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...Dat#Post3994569

Used Firestone TF4651-092314ES
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...Dat#Post3994624
 
The new center tube cage looks pretty good now - smaller windows and beefier structure. Still don't like the way the end caps are bonded to the pleats, or the combo valve. The end caps look much thicker than in some eCore filters (ie, old SuperTechs were paper thin).

Here's a nice Julian Date calendar to decipher the date code with for those who don't have one to reference.

http://www.skjos.net/garand/images/Julian Date.jpg
 
ZeeOSix - I agree with you, the bonding on these could be better. The first AC Delco I cut, the cover separated from the media way too easily. This one took some effort. The Champion PH820, I tore the end cap getting it off. There seems to be some variables they have not worked out. They might need a bit more hot glue wicking into the thicker covers. I have not yet noticed any issues with the anti drain back function or the bypass function. In my view we really have not had winter here. The stethoscope confirmed the filter is not in bypass on cold startup and the alternator is the noisiest accessory on the engine. I will do a cut and post on current filter when my oil change comes due.

So far the best one I have cut is the standard WIX filter. And I got those mail order for a bit over a dollar more than AC Delcos. So for a dollar it is a no brainer.

Anything that does not tear is a plus in my view.

Thanks for the Julian calendar that is a good one. Much better than what I have been doing.
 
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
ZeeOSix - I agree with you, the bonding on these could be better. The first AC Delco I cut, the cover separated from the media way too easily. This one took some effort. The Champion PH820, I tore the end cap getting it off. There seems to be some variables they have not worked out. They might need a bit more hot glue wicking into the thicker covers.


Yep, the bonding between the end caps and pleats doesn't always seem real good on some of the eCores.

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
I have not yet noticed any issues with the anti drain back function or the bypass function. In my view we really have not had winter here. The stethoscope confirmed the filter is not in bypass on cold startup and the alternator is the noisiest accessory on the engine.


Please give details on how you used the stethoscope to determine if the bypass valve was opening or not.

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Thanks for the Julian calendar that is a good one. Much better than what I have been doing.


No problem, I just happened to come across that one and it seemed easy to read, so thought others might like to use it too.
 
I've used some E-Cores in the past and was always a little worried about the media blowing out. With this improvement, I'd sleep good at night without any worries.
The new E-Core should be CrazyOilDude's "go to" filter.....
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
WellOiled said:
ZeeOSix - I agree with you, the bonding on these could be better. The first AC Delco I cut, the cover separated from the media way too easily. This one took some effort. The Champion PH820, I tore the end cap getting it off. There seems to be some variables they have not worked out. They might need a bit more hot glue wicking into the thicker covers.


Yep, the bonding between the end caps and pleats doesn't always seem real good on some of the eCores.

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
I have not yet noticed any issues with the anti drain back function or the bypass function. In my view we really have not had winter here. The stethoscope confirmed the filter is not in bypass on cold startup and the alternator is the noisiest accessory on the engine.


Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Please give details on how you used the stethoscope to determine if the bypass valve was opening or not.


I have heard filters in bypass before say at 10F or 20F. They can make considerable noise. In this case it was only close to 32F. So I mapped out all the points I wanted to check. I used the stethoscope to isolate / localize the noise. I started the engine and quickly checked the PS pump, idler and tensioner, and alternator. I was able to check the filter for noise and it was quiet. All the noise came from the alternator bearings. 27 miles later and the alternator is quiet. What irritates me is I just replaced this alternator about 6 months ago. At 32F and 5W30, this filter could not have been in bypass unless it was defective. What would be cool (no pun intended) would be to listen to the filter in bypass as it goes out of bypass so you know for certain. With 5w30 it just is not cold enough here to check it.
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
WellOiled,

In the Wix thread you say it was ~ seven dollars from an auto parts store.




Why is this AC Delco filter not labeled with an E suffix?


This filter was purchased from Pepboys for about $7.

As to why AC Delco does not use the E I do not know.

PF1250 is eCore
PF-1250F is eCore 12 pack
PF1250CL is classic
PF1250FCL is classic 12 pack
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Kruse
I've used some E-Cores in the past and was always a little worried about the media blowing out. With this improvement, I'd sleep good at night without any worries.
The new E-Core should be CrazyOilDude's "go to" filter.....


I have used perhaps 100s of AC Delco filters so I have no fear in using one. However, the glue job could be better. See the exchange ZeeOSix and I had.
 
i have following to look at:

STP S2 from AutoZone
Parts Plus PH820 (not the same as Champ PH820) ordered the Champ and Amazon shipped a Parts Plus
Fram PH2
Fram TG2

Which one would you be most interested in?

The Parts Plus may not always be readily available.
 
First and foremost, I have no problem with the filter anyone chooses to use. Free country.

That out of the way, appears some improvements to the cage and media pleating uniformity on this ACDelco ecore have been made. That should help with the blown out media that has occurred on some ecore anecdotes posted here over the years. And the ecore 'type' nylon cage design has long been used successfully in cartridge filter applications, and continues to be.

However, referenced ACD still uses a nitrile combo valve shown. I've said often one thing to use nitrile/rubber which is known to harden faster than silicon and thus 'generally' used on lower tier or more value line filters. It's one thing when nitrile controls just the adbv function, worst one might get with loss of pliability is a start up rattle from drain back. Not a significant issue.

But when nitrile/rubber also controls the much more critical bypass function, another matter. And as the ultimate proof of that fact, the new made for newer GM vehicle ACDelco ecores completely eschew the use of a combo valve. Instead GM has spec'd the traditional dome end Fram poppet type bypass. That tells me what GM thinks of the combo valve for use in standard oci's.

So, while the improvements noted look good, the continued use of a combo valve wouldn't make this filter, one I would chase. While likely 'ok' for a 3-5k mi. oci, just not my preference over other similar tier filters (or higher tier at similar cost) using tradition metal dome or thread end bypass. To each their own. My .02
 
Thanks for cutting and providing detailed cataloguing .


I somehow seemed to have missed alot of the other filters you have posted.

I have a queue to look at, and compare, this Delco with the Wix, Champ and the CQ you have assessed.
 
Building on what Sajac said. I believe that GM discovered there are real issues with combo valve functions. For proper anti drain back valve function, the filter would need a soft pliable rubber lasting the full OCI/OFI with some margin. For proper bypass valve function, the filter would need a much harder rubber that lasts with some margin. These two can not be optimized with a single piece nitrile combo valve. By separating the functions, both can be optimized.

As a real example the Fram Extra guard uses a nitrile ADBV and a separate dome end bypass valve. I submit Fram optimized the filter for 3k to 5k miles with some margin for conventional oil changes. For 6k to 10k miles the Fram Tough Guard uses a silicone ADBV and separate dome end bypass valve. Again both functions can be optimized with margin.

The CQ Red has a very soft and pliable nitrile ADBV and a separate bypass valve, however the pleat spacing was incredibly wide. I think it might break in use. I will avoid this one for the moment. Many BITOG goers swoon over this filter. Time will tell.

The WIX standard filter has a soft pliable silicone ADBV and a separate bypass valve. I mail ordered these for a little over $4 plus postage. If I stopped here, this would be the one.

I will use up the AC Delco PF1250's and not buy any more. The glue job could be better. In the Houston area, they will do fine for 5k miles. If I lived in the center of the country I would eschew these to borrow Sajac's language.

The Motorcraft FL-820S just simply tore. So what good does a silicone ADBV and thread end bypass valve do for the engine when the media tears? Some Motorcraft users swoon over these too.

Does a great quality filter exist for less than $4 USD street prices?

Users should consider that nitrile rubber does work harden with use and loses pliability over time.

When I started this project, the MC filter was going for $3.56 at WM. I was initially looking for filters with price points less than $4.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Thanks for cutting and providing detailed cataloguing .


I somehow seemed to have missed alot of the other filters you have posted.

I have a queue to look at, and compare, this Delco with the Wix, Champ and the CQ you have assessed.


You are welcome. Make your filter choice wisely. Filters are cheap, engines are expensive.

Look at some of the used oil filter cut and posts other members are making. They can be instructive.
 
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Originally Posted By: Kruse
I've used some E-Cores in the past and was always a little worried about the media blowing out. With this improvement, I'd sleep good at night without any worries.
The new E-Core should be CrazyOilDude's "go to" filter.....


I have used perhaps 100s of AC Delco filters so I have no fear in using one. However, the glue job could be better. See the exchange ZeeOSix and I had.


If you lived in cold Michigan, then you;d find out why I quit AC Delco. Too much cold-start hammering and it starts early....... like at 3K.

Used to be good. Not anymore.
 
Holy thread resurrection. Since this thread was created, I have run 5 to 6 Champ PH820 filters. Generally speaking the ADBV starts to leak before 3000 miles. Never an issue with the element. I have 2 AC Delco and 1 STP to go and that will be the end of those. If I lived North of the Mason Dixon Line, I would use something else too. Second thought, maybe North of I10.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top